bob graham without traini

[helix]

I've often thought that the LDWA stalwarts would have a better success ratio on the BG. 12 - 18hr days are pretty typical for them. Before anyone asks: I've no idea just how many have tried.

Friend of mine made an attempt with LDWA folk as support. It was a bit of a disaster. No doubt they could go all day but the group he had wasn't fast enough, they weren't used to big climbs and had little to no knowledge of the route.

I'm sure an LDWA member who decided to train for it specifically and learn the route and lines etc would crack it though.

[Martyn P]

I know two different people who came from pure road-running backgrounds trained on flat for London Marathon mid-April (clocked about 2:50) did a few hilly long-days-out, then completed BG 3rd week June. (doubt they did a single 10,000-ft week)

But that's the point isn't it Daz? If you're capable of knocking out a 2:50 marathon you are, by definition, a decent runner and can perhaps launch a BGR attempt without the training that conventional wisdom dictates. Presumably said individuals enlisted decent navigators to lead them round? Or did they self-navigate? There's no rule that says you have to know the route before an attempt, but it for most normal mortals it's key.

[Stolly]

I supported a really good non-hill runner on leg 3, when he'd seemingly sprinted down to Dunmail way ahead of his already quite fast schedule at the end of leg 2. His legs though were eventually hit by the climbs, descents and terrain and he almost went from powering on to immediate full shut down not far into leg 3. Fair dues he battled on but was well down for a 24 hour schedule, was limping badly and gave up at wasdale. The trouble with not training in the hills properly is the not knowing how your legs and body might react. The same with knobs on as far as getting the eating and drinking right too

[JohnK]

Friend of mine made an attempt with LDWA folk as support. It was a bit of a disaster.

No doubt they could go all day but the group he had wasn't fast enough, they weren't used to big climbs and had little to no knowledge of the route.

I'm sure an LDWA member who decided to train for it specifically and learn the route and lines etc would crack it though.

I am sure you will find that there have been plenty of attempts by folks with runners in support that have ended as bit of a disaster and for the same reasons

Boyd Millen was a LDWA member and completed a double BGR in 52hrs 30 in 1977 I think It was and I think he was member 14 of the BG club after completing the BGR in 1973.
I think you would find that plenty of LDWA members are well capable of doing the BGR should they have a mind to, in fact I know some that have, but a lot are modestl and have a tendency just to do things and move on to their next challenge without making a song and dance about what they have done.

[Graham Breeze]

I think you would find that plenty of LDWA members are well capable of doing the BGR should they have a mind to, in fact I know some that have, but a lot are modest and have a tendency just to do things and move on to their next challenge without making a song and dance about what they have done.

Indeed.

The people at the front of a LDWA Challenge event are runners, not walkers and they'll still be running after 25-30-35-50 miles - and then again the following weekend.

And every year around 500 "walkers" start the annual 100 mile event which might be in Scotland or anywhere finishing in something over 24 hours. And they don't have anyone carrying their kit and mopping their brows and navigating for them. A few years ago at the Welsh Valleys 100 (which wasn't all in the valleys!) one man finished the 100 and then went round again to do a double 100.

Billy said the BGR is only a long walk but for a LDWA member it's not really long at all..

[IWCharters]

Indeed.

The people at the front of a LDWA Challenge event are runners, not walkers and they'll still be running after 25-30-35-50 miles - and then again the following weekend.

And every year around 500 "walkers" start the annual 100 mile event which might be in Scotland or anywhere finishing in something over 24 hours. And they don't have anyone carrying their kit and mopping their brows and navigating for them. A few years ago at the Welsh Valleys 100 (which wasn't all in the valleys!) one man finished the 100 and then went round again to do a double 100.

Billy said the BGR is only a long walk but for a LDWA member it's not really long at all..

The LDWA 100 includes only a little climbing compared to a BGR and it has so many check points that very little kit need be carried. My recollection of 100s is that only a small proportion of the starters finish in close to 24 hours, most require longer and some require the better part of another 24 hours.

Having done both in the same year I agree with the LDWA conventional wisdom which is "the distance doesn't matter, it is the climbing that kills you" and on that basis an LDWA 100 might be further but it is also easier.

[Graham Breeze]

The LDWA 100 includes only a little climbing compared to a BGR and it has so many check points that veryIan little kit need be carried. My recollection of 100s is that only a small proportion of the starters finish in close to 24 hours, most require longer and some require the better part of another 24 hours.

Having done both in the same year I agree with the LDWA conventional wisdom which is "the distance doesn't matter, it is the climbing that kills you" and on that basis an LDWA 100 might be further but it is also easier.

Ian

I agree with most of your points. But a 100 is still no walk in the park as the DNF data shows. The LDWA 100 kit requirements are now much more demanding (= very heavy!) and have to be carried by the entrant, not by supporters. In fact after the Welsh Valleys 100 which was mounted in awful weather the LDWA became much more concerned about the possibility of a fatality because of someone getting lost alone in the middle of the night up a mountain without adequate kit and now have kit checks at the first CP to check people have really set off with what they are supposed to be carrying.

Graham

[DazTheSlug]

But that's the point isn't it Daz? If you're capable of knocking out a 2:50 marathon you are, by definition, a decent runner and can perhaps launch a BGR attempt without the training that conventional wisdom dictates. Presumably said individuals enlisted decent navigators to lead them round? Or did they self-navigate? There's no rule that says you have to know the route before an attempt, but it for most normal mortals it's key.

yeah they both had good quality support (navigation and pacing being key obviously) - the guy I took round Leg 4 had literally no idea where he was going, but was still flying towards a sub-22 when he burnt me off on the descent to Honister

[JohnK]

Indeed.

The people at the front of a LDWA Challenge event are runners, not walkers and they'll still be running after 25-30-35-50 miles - and then again the following weekend.

And every year around 500 "walkers" start the annual 100 mile event which might be in Scotland or anywhere finishing in something over 24 hours. And they don't have anyone carrying their kit and mopping their brows and navigating for them. A few years ago at the Welsh Valleys 100 (which wasn't all in the valleys!) one man finished the 100 and then went round again to do a double 100.

Billy said the BGR is only a long walk but for a LDWA member it's not really long at all..

IMO that is about right ,( maths are not my strong point and I stand to be corrected on my calcs) But to put the BGR into perspective it is around 66 miles and I reckon 3 mph or 20 min miles will get you round in 22 hrs and the 27,000 ft of ascent averages out at a little over 400 ft a mile. which I reckon any reasonably fit person with the right mental aptitude should be able to achieve.

The real key in any distance event is the mental approach, e.g. take the BGR best not to think of it as a 66 mile 27000ft outing, but to break it down to 10 x 6.6 mile runs with 2700 feet of climb for each mile, that way you are just doing ten runs back to back over a distance that is well within your reach (if its not then why are you out there) but when training never overlook the mental training, even the fittest can be defeated once the mind starts playing tricks and telling them that the can`t make it.

[Graham Breeze]

The real key in any distance event is the mental approach...

Absolutely.

Winning (whatever that means in your own terms) or losing is all in your head. Until you are dead you can always physically find more.