GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a rant

[Grouse]

What is the alternative to a socialist system or a mixed economy though - naked capitalism and free markets amount to misery for millions, what ever you say there are people at the bottom of the pile who cannot drag themselves out of the shit and whose only function is as consumers to line the pockets of the rich. I believe they should be aided by the state and am happy to pay taxes to see this done;of course I know no welfare system would ever be perfect and I would like to see for example a public transport that is not run for the profit of shareholders or anybody else, but that is subsideised by taxes. I think we need this more than ever and I don't think capitalism is going to save us from the abyss we are staring into, in fact I think it is largely the cause of it. I think our political system is the result of capitalism and it is there to serve Mammon. Think what this contry would be like if it wasn't for the reforms of the 19th century etc. - these weren't given but had to be fought for. Do you think people were wrong to fight for reforms which limited the degree to which capitalism exploited people,
and to fight for the National Health Service and the welfare state?

[Grouse]

(Just thought I'd stick me oar in before Margarine started rabbiting on).

[ghost]

Blimey - this is getting interesting!

[Bob]

A lot depends on your doctor and the local demographic of his/her surgery and how they feel they can best spend their budget. Basically the NHS is there to get people in a fit enough state to go to work so anything over and above that and you have to be lucky.

I grew up in the south Lakes and the local surgery was inhabited by, shall we say, senior citizens. Hence whenever I went in with a climbing injury it was "Oh! This is interesting!" Hence no complaints whatsoever on my part.

Some time ago I posted in the injuries section about a knee problem. I went to see the doctor (we have one of those practices where there are about a dozen doctors and you can either wait to see "your" doctor or see whoever is available first) he asked reasonable questions - i.e. on-road or off-road running etc. Put me on a stronger anti-inflammatory but with the usual platitudes of "take it easy" and "see how it goes".

Well after a couple of weeks the swelling had gone down but it still wasn't "going" so I went to see the physio. This guy had treated my ITBS a few years ago. Immediate diagnosis - meniscal tear (torn cartilege) and a request for my GP's phone number to get a cortisone injection on the NHS. By the time he rings the surgery, the doctor who had seen me first has gone on holiday so I get another of the dozen or so. This time it happens to be the senior partner in the practice who is also my neighbour.

He knows I run a lot and I got the "take it easy for three or four days" routine but also that if it wasn't working out to come back and he'd arrange an MRI scan.

The physio cost £35 but I can afford it, and having a specialist who is more attuned to your desires to get back running or whatever and who can guide the GP side of things means you get the best of both worlds.

[molehill]

I have managed to wangle a physio (achilles injury, 7 weeks) for the first time ever on the NHS, second appointment on Monday. A couple (friends) who moved here 6 months ago have both immediately received physio treatment for running/sports injuries - I have had nothing previously in over 20 years.

So this time I pushed the GP and had an appointment. I can't say the physio is as 'sports orientated' as my previous private consultations, but I do feel I deserve a bit of treatment for free.

When I speak to smokers about their rights to treatment on the NHS - considering their abuse of their bodies - I have had the reply "The amount we pay in tax on cigarettes, entitles us to our treament". So the amount I spend on keeping fit/healthy entitles me to a bit of free treatment, I reckon . without feeling guilty.

[CL]

What is the alternative to a socialist system or a mixed economy though - naked capitalism and free markets amount to misery for millions, what ever you say there are people at the bottom of the pile who cannot drag themselves out of the shit and whose only function is as consumers to line the pockets of the rich. I believe they should be aided by the state and am happy to pay taxes to see this done;of course I know no welfare system would ever be perfect and I would like to see for example a public transport that is not run for the profit of shareholders or anybody else, but that is subsideised by taxes. I think we need this more than ever and I don't think capitalism is going to save us from the abyss we are staring into, in fact I think it is largely the cause of it. I think our political system is the result of capitalism and it is there to serve Mammon. Think what this contry would be like if it wasn't for the reforms of the 19th century etc. - these weren't given but had to be fought for. Do you think people were wrong to fight for reforms which limited the degree to which capitalism exploited people,
and to fight for the National Health Service and the welfare state?

So because they can't drag themselves out of the s*** the rest of us should suffer?

All the misrepresentations of capitalism have come from Leftist socialists. Anyone who wants to know the truth of the socialist vs capitalism argument only have to look to history.

After the Napoleonic wars around 1815 to the first world war 100 years later, capitalism led to the longest period without a major world war. It wasn't a pure capitalism but they didn't have the controls we have now.

Today most countries are either completely socialist or are dominated by socialism and look at the state of the world.

Now you say the ones at the bottom of the pile are only there to 'line the pockets of the rich,' but how is that possible when those at the bottom don't work.

What I think was wrong was for our people in 1945 to vote in a system of government that we'd just spent 6 years fighting against(fascism). The only difference between Hitler and Brown is Hitler believed in robbing and murdering his own people, Brown just robs his.

[Timmy C]

I'm a touch confused Christopher, but I'm sure someone of your omniscience will be able to help me out. I thought the issue here was the narrower point of some GPs dealing with sports injuries poorly, and also whether it should be their role to treat them at all. The problem of the world being a near socialist superstate seems a bit peripheral to this. Tell me if I'm wrong, but otherwise let's not be distracted from our fell running harmony by politics. Phone up FiveLive if you need to vent your anger.

By the way, the First Opium War was undoubtedly capitalist in its very objectives, but it contributed to the Taiping Rebellion (1850s I think) and more casualties than any war except WW2. You may need to find a new anecdote.

[Margarine]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... don't get him started on fell running again - keep him on the politics!

[CL]

I'm a touch confused Christopher, but I'm sure someone of your omniscience will be able to help me out. I thought the issue here was the narrower point of some GPs dealing with sports injuries poorly, and also whether it should be their role to treat them at all. The problem of the world being a near socialist superstate seems a bit peripheral to this. Tell me if I'm wrong, but otherwise let's not be distracted from our fell running harmony by politics. Phone up FiveLive if you need to vent your anger.

By the way, the First Opium War was undoubtedly capitalist in its very objectives, but it contributed to the Taiping Rebellion (1850s I think) and more casualties than any war except WW2. You may need to find a new anecdote.

Timmy C I don't think you're confused at all. What you want is to skirt around the fundamental issue. Peter wanted to know why he had to pay for his medical, and I've told him in fundamental terms.

What you want is a discussion based on non essentials, which is superficial and peripheral,because then we don't have to get down to the root causes of this country's problems, including the NHS.

Now the conflict you mentioned was a civil war, not a world war. China at that time was a theocracy and was committed to land 'socialization,' and the suppression of private trade. In fact some of the very things a capitalist system is against.

[Grouse]

Hang on a minute... didn't Britain go to war with China in order to protect the trade in opium?