Turbo Trainers

[emmilou]

Dare I bring the thread back to it's original meaning???

ok........New turbo bought.......god the old one was soooooo old!....sorry Widdy I was about to PM ya you could have had for nowt mate but hubbie has beaten me to it and taken it on to turbo heaven...

Anyway...... I have a few 45 min to an hour sessions to do and do do but I'm after advice for longer sessions and BEFORE all you lot get on and say I should be outside on my bike blah bleedin blah I have a husband who works stupid long days and 3 small children so YES I would MUCH rather be outside on my bike but sometimes it just ain't possible.

SO..... if I want to do a 90 - 120 min session (or whatever length the kids will sit through a film ) what's the best plan??

For those of you that do do the long turbo-ing what indeed do you do???

many thanks!!

emmi

[nikalas]

Dare I bring the thread back to it's original meaning???

ok........New turbo bought.......god the old one was soooooo old!....sorry Widdy I was about to PM ya you could have had for nowt mate but hubbie has beaten me to it and taken it on to turbo heaven...

Anyway...... I have a few 45 min to an hour sessions to do and do do but I'm after advice for longer sessions and BEFORE all you lot get on and say I should be outside on my bike blah bleedin blah I have a husband who works stupid long days and 3 small children so YES I would MUCH rather be outside on my bike but sometimes it just ain't possible.

SO..... if I want to do a 90 - 120 min session (or whatever length the kids will sit through a film ) what's the best plan??

For those of you that do do the long turbo-ing what indeed do you do???

many thanks!!

emmi

... you'll struggle to find many specific training sessions for that long a period as most folks will reckon an hour is about tops before boredom kicks in... saying that with i-pods, DVD's and BBC I-player you can go longer.. I had a mate who knew he was Ironman ready when he could turbo through the original Star Wars trilogy. I'd suggest tacking some "normal" length sessions (see my earlier post) back-to-back and see how you go with that.

[nikalas]

[QUOTE=christopher leigh;105372].

Surely the optimum working temperature for enzymes in the body is 37degrees?If they were meant to work best at 40degrees, surely the body would be 40 degrees?



....sorry couldn't let it be..

With regards to optimal conditions/temperatures for enzyme function you can take it up with Dr Mike Stroud:

Survival of the Fittest

"When you first start running, leg muscles are only at 37C, or even a degree or so less on a cold winter's day. Yet it is at 38C that they work best. Of course, once you start running, you generate a lot of spare heat and the muscle temperatures rise, but this can take a couple of miles, even on a warm day, and through that distance you will not feel it. The reason for muscles working better when warmer is that their enzymes are set to operate at the 38C level, which is an interesting evolutionary choice. If we had evolved to be sprinters in temperate climes, we would have been better off if our muscles worked best at 37C or even slightly cooler so that we were ready for action at any time. The fact that it takes a considerable distance to bring them up to operating temperature supports the view that our origins were warmer and our usual needs were for endurance rather than speed."

Just off to do 40 minutes Zone 3 effort on the turbo WITH a 10 minute warm-up.

[CL]

[QUOTE=nikalas;107218]

.

Surely the optimum working temperature for enzymes in the body is 37degrees?If they were meant to work best at 40degrees, surely the body would be 40 degrees?



....sorry couldn't let it be..

With regards to optimal conditions/temperatures for enzyme function you can take it up with Dr Mike Stroud:

Survival of the Fittest

"When you first start running, leg muscles are only at 37C, or even a degree or so less on a cold winter's day. Yet it is at 38C that they work best. Of course, once you start running, you generate a lot of spare heat and the muscle temperatures rise, but this can take a couple of miles, even on a warm day, and through that distance you will not feel it. The reason for muscles working better when warmer is that their enzymes are set to operate at the 38C level, which is an interesting evolutionary choice. If we had evolved to be sprinters in temperate climes, we would have been better off if our muscles worked best at 37C or even slightly cooler so that we were ready for action at any time. The fact that it takes a considerable distance to bring them up to operating temperature supports the view that our origins were warmer and our usual needs were for endurance rather than speed."

Just off to do 40 minutes Zone 3 effort on the turbo WITH a 10 minute warm-up.

Nicklas thanks for the info! I wasn't being deliberately cantankerous in our earlier discussions, I just didn't know one way or the other.For years I've warmed up believing it to be doing me some good.Sometimes though, particulary when short of time, I've gone into my dungeon and done 20 minutes on the turbo as fast as when I warm up.I never once injured myself.

So I started to think about all the reasons for warming up and down.I understand certain aspects of the warm up, other aspects don't make sense.Now just because I don't understand them, doesn't mean they're not true, but the reasons given just didn't add up.

I think you knew that as well, because otherwise you wouldn't have gone to the trouble of putting Stroud's article on here. Anyway I've read it, but a lot of it doesn't make sense.

Some people are naturally at 38C so they wouldn't need to warm up, according to Stroud.If a person with a normal temperature of 37C warmed up to 38C, surely the body would start trying to lose the heat via normal means(sweating etc).Doesn't this indicate, that the body is trying to reduce its temperature, to the most efficient level(i.e 37C)?

I don't know what the answer is Nicklas, but I'll keep digging!

Regards Chris

[nikalas]

[QUOTE=christopher leigh;107290]

Nicklas thanks for the info! I wasn't being deliberately cantankerous in our earlier discussions, I just didn't know one way or the other.For years I've warmed up believing it to be doing me some good.Sometimes though, particulary when short of time, I've gone into my dungeon and done 20 minutes on the turbo as fast as when I warm up.I never once injured myself.

So I started to think about all the reasons for warming up and down.I understand certain aspects of the warm up, other aspects don't make sense.Now just because I don't understand them, doesn't mean they're not true, but the reasons given just didn't add up.

I think you knew that as well, because otherwise you wouldn't have gone to the trouble of putting Stroud's article on here. Anyway I've read it, but a lot of it doesn't make sense.

Some people are naturally at 38C so they wouldn't need to warm up, according to Stroud.If a person with a normal temperature of 37C warmed up to 38C, surely the body would start trying to lose the heat via normal means(sweating etc).Doesn't this indicate, that the body is trying to reduce its temperature, to the most efficient level(i.e 37C)?

I don't know what the answer is Nicklas, but I'll keep digging!

Regards Chris

I think you've hit the nail on the head (agreement!!!) that there is no hard and fast concrete answer. Also, long established and accepted "facts" about training/performance should be challenged. For example, recent meta-analysis have strongly challenged that post-exercise stretching serves any role in injury prevention. However, I am swayed by the physiological process of a warm-up and do believe that it results in improved performance. There will be exceptions and some folks can go from "cold" but there will always be variation but, for the majority of people, I'd always recommend one.

From my own experience, I know certain sessions are impossible for me unless I've fired up the system. For example, yesterdays 40 minutes in zone 3 on the turbo. I have to do five minutes of steady and then five minutes of increasing efforts to be able to elevate my heart-rate and sustain it.

Back to the enzymes, again there is going to be variation in a species around a mean and this could reflect possible adaption to different environments. However, assuming modern humans all came from the same genetic stock that variation will be minimal. Resting muscle temperature is very consistent (body striving constantly for homeostasis) and has to be to allow the enzymes to work. The band of optimum working temperature is very narrow so yes, sweating is needed to cool the system down but this is not because the body is striving to get the temperature back down to 37C. Dr Stroud's theory of this reflecting a warm climate/endurance evolutionary past is simply a theory. But, its a theory to explain the apparent anomaly, but easy to prove in a test tube fact that enzymes involved in energy production, work better at a temperature slightly above resting mean.

The truth is out there

[Bonobo]

For those of you that do do the long turbo-ing what indeed do you do???

Have you got a Heart Rate Monitor?
Do you know your Anaerobic Threshlod (AT)?

Some options: (Do a 20min warm up @ approx. 65% AT)
1) Build up Heart rate and Turbo for 60-120mins @ 95% of AT (Constant)
2) Build up to 95-99% for 10min intervals (i.e. 10mins @ 95-99% followed by 10mins @ 65%) repeat 3-4 times.

Note: Keep cadence high (90-100rpm)

Cool down with low resistance and lower cadence for 15-20 mins

Try http://www.tacx.com/beleef+tacx.php?...p=Your%20Coach for advice.

[moo]

Injured on ennerdale and still cant run. Going to buy a turbo trainer.
Which one to buy please? Advice gratefully received! Or alternatively has anyone got a one they're not using who wants to sell it?


Cheers all x

[AndyA]

I've got a CycleOps Mag you can have for £45. It's in perfect nick (just a bit dusty!) so please no haggling!

Let me know; i live in burnley, working skipton tomorrow, ramsbottom tue a.m, Nelson wednesday.

Andy

[ratfink]

emmi maybe check out

http://www.abcc.co.uk/Articles/turbotrn1.html

i'm recovering an ankle sprain - I haven't got a bike that will go on a turbo trainer but i recently went to a spinning class - i know you don't have time to do that regularly but if you can get to one or two they might give you some practical ideas.

that said - i've only been to one spinning class - as a non-proper cyclist (commute about 7 miles a day - no computer etc) i was slightly confused.

The session i went to - i was more limited by leg pain (lactate build up?) than aerobic capability (so although i was panting and sweating it wasn't the limiting factor).

This session seemed to do a lot of standing up in high gear (where i couldn't pedal very fast). This goes against the recommendations in this thread for high cadence. If I go to spinning again should I try do lower resistance higher cadence (the resistance setting in these things is up to the individual - allowing for mixed ability class).

If i do the high resistance/low cadence will i get massive thighs??

[moo]

sent you a pm andy