Borrowdale Fell Race

[FellMonster]

I can't see how else Scoffer et al could organise this race any better:

1. Numbers have to be limited for a race like Borrowdale for environmental reasons.

2. For safety reasons the race has to be pre-entry so a runner's credentials can be, if not actually checked, at least specified on the entry form.

3. A substitution system was in place - I missed out on a place, but managed to substitute with someone who couldn't run (Thanks Goldie.)

There are lots of reasons why people can't run: injury, illness, work commitments, car problems etc... There were a few in my club that didn't run for a variety of reasons, but they all tried to find substitutes. I don't think there's any point in "naming and shaming."

I MAY BE TOTALLY AND UTTERLY WRONG BUT:

1) I think Borrowdale has been Entry on the day in previous years

2) Do you REALLY think someone checks people's credentials and the race results from races they have said they completed on their entry forms? That would take a very keen, and enthusiastic organiser with a lot of spare time on his/her hands indeed!

3) You could still have the requirements in place on the entry form for people to fill in on the day.....it is important to remember that FELL RUNNING as a sport relies on a sense of responsibility on the competitors part- they are responsible ultimately for their own safety in the hills- otherwise, could you imagine the size of the rulebook needed for it?? madness

[Alan Lucker]

In my view the organisation of the race was spot on. To get 460 at the start with a limit of 500 is doing very well.

The question I have is how many people didn't get to run who really wanted to? There were places being offered on here in the week up to the race, and that's how I got mine without too much difficulty (thanks). If I had got a place back in June and couldn't run, then I'd have offered my place to someone else. In my view this works much better than the excess entries and no transfer policy operated at say the Flora London Marathon, and it's much more in keeping with the spirit of fellrunning.

This is what I call talking sense.
Iain also has a point the numbers have to be limited to a reasonable amount due to the environmental impact. Remember how boggy and cut up parts were. About 170 pairs of shoes had gone over the ground when I got there, and there were still about 250 yet to cover it, but it was very noticeable in parts. i.e. Bessyboot to Esk Hause.
I think the overall organization of the race was excellent. I really enjoyed it.
My Sub 4 hour target will wait for next year.

[crowhill]

I MAY BE TOTALLY AND UTTERLY WRONG BUT:

1) I think Borrowdale has been Entry on the day in previous years

2) Do you REALLY think someone checks people's credentials and the race results from races they have said they completed on their entry forms? That would take a very keen, and enthusiastic organiser with a lot of spare time on his/her hands indeed!

3) You could still have the requirements in place on the entry form for people to fill in on the day.....it is important to remember that FELL RUNNING as a sport relies on a sense of responsibility on the competitors part- they are responsible ultimately for their own safety in the hills- otherwise, could you imagine the size of the rulebook needed for it?? madness

Firstly, WHY THE SHOUTING?

Secondly,

1) It has, but the English/British Champ status would be expected to swell numbers.

2) No I don't for a minute, hence my comment "If not actually checked". Though I can see why a race organiser who might have to call on mountain rescue might want to dissuade someone completely inexperienced and might just do so by stipulating previous experience.

3) Of course it does, never said it didn't. Just said there was a substitute system in place.

My post was in response to daft suggestions to name and shame non-runners and a vote of approval for Scoffer and the race organisers for doing a good job.

I'm really trying to understand what can possibly be getting your goat I'm really struggling to work it out. You did start your post with "I MAY BE TOTALLY AND UTTERLY WRONG" - You're right, I think you are, you're barking up the wrong tree.

[IainR]

Number 1: Were you at Borrowdale. A wide variety of lines? Maybe once we hit scafell the route choice varied, but the first third and last 1/4 I'd say 90% of us took near identical lines.

Number 2: Of course it would, you are talking of an almost 50% increase in numbers, as it was parking was just about full. Another 50% and I think we may have had trouble.

Number 3: I actually think any race should donate some money (from the runners fee) to the local conservation/footpath repairs.

Number 4: there's benefitting locals and there is full stop pissing them off by blocking roads, toilets and taking over an area.

Number 5: Yes I ran snowdon, jump over my back wall and I start running up it. No it isn't, its run as one race, but only 500 ran, like at borrowdale, make it a one off race and I doubt it would cope, I doubt many races could cope. Locals must be considered to a point, sadly without landowners say so races are tricky to organise. Read the CRoW act. And yes I think a large number of runners care about their environmental impact.

And I agree, I thought Borrowdale passed well. I've not heard of any runners who failed to get entry in the end. It was a nice size, a large race, but the start could tolerate it, and the start/finish area could too.

[Henry Porter]

This is a sad and dispiriting thread. If I believed for one minute that the average fell runner "doesn't give a monkey's about the environment" I would leave the FRA and never run another race.

I'm new to this game and am immensely impressed by the care and commitment of the race organisers. It must be love because it aint money, the entrance fees to most races are insignificant.

I'm sure everyone who enters intends to run,its just that life and sometimes death gets in the way. Some simple standby system should be easy to arrange although as already pointed out numbers were available on here up to the day.

I'm so proud to be part of this thing we share (albeit at the back) all this demanding rules and namings and shamings seems to demean us all.

[Alan Lucker]

2) Do you REALLY think someone checks people's credentials and the race results from races they have said they completed on their entry forms? That would take a very keen, and enthusiastic organiser with a lot of spare time on his/her hands indeed!

I doubt that his would ever be done. However spot checks wouldn't take too long on the internet. I think the main aim is to leave you in no doubt as to the difficulty of the race that you are entering. If you lied it would also give the organizer some comeback in any ensuing litigation. God forbid.
The rest of your problems seam to have been well answered by other forumites, I hope you see their very valid points of view.

[stumpy]

If I believed for one minute that the average fell runner "doesn't give a monkey's about the environment" I would leave the FRA and never run another race.

Sadly, judging by the number of discarded gel packets I saw at Borrowdale a few don't...

[invalidpassword]

I MAY BE TOTALLY AND UTTERLY WRONG BUT:

No need to shout!

[bogtrotter]

Adidas Swoops re-soled with LSA 10mm studs; so much grip my knees are still hurting now

Huw - where did you get your swoops resoled?
Would be really useful seeing as they aren't making them anymore

[Also Ran]

Huw - where did you get your swoops resoled?
Would be really useful seeing as they aren't making them anymore

I would think that Huw used Lancashire Shoe Repairs - they are based in Burnley and will resole more or less any trainer with their "Edmundson unit" which is what was originally on the Felldancer shoes. They have a website lsr.gb.com