Borrowdale Fell Race

[FellMonster]

Firstly, WHY THE SHOUTING?

Secondly,

1) It has, but the English/British Champ status would be expected to swell numbers.

2) No I don't for a minute, hence my comment "If not actually checked". Though I can see why a race organiser who might have to call on mountain rescue might want to dissuade someone completely inexperienced and might just do so by stipulating previous experience.

3) Of course it does, never said it didn't. Just said there was a substitute system in place.

My post was in response to daft suggestions to name and shame non-runners and a vote of approval for Scoffer and the race organisers for doing a good job.

I'm really trying to understand what can possibly be getting your goat I'm really struggling to work it out. You did start your post with "I MAY BE TOTALLY AND UTTERLY WRONG" - You're right, I think you are, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Firstly- I was not shouting- I was typing, and just happened to have bold on and was too lazy to take it off again.

Secondly- Your response made me laugh greatly.....nothing is getting on my goat.....if you look at last year (when Borrowdale was not a championship race, you'll see that there was still 500 limit and pre-entry and it all got messy and filled up before the time limit and there was still whinging etc.....the championship status, therefore, has made little difference to the numbers)

Of course race organisers want to deter people without necessary mountain experience- I'm not and have never questioned that- the simple fact is that they are people with jobs, who often run themselves and have other responsibilities- they have NOT got the time to go through and check people's credentials.....thats where the responsibility must lie on the individual entering the race.

Finally, I never said that you said it didn't....i was just making the point. I wasnt' barking up any tree at all mate.......

Someone asked me recently if I was secretly YORKSHIRE THUG (which made me laugh greatly). WHY? I responded. They then said that they thought it was me because I was annoying C**t too. I went away quite flattered really.

[FellMonster]

Number 1: Were you at Borrowdale. A wide variety of lines? Maybe once we hit scafell the route choice varied, but the first third and last 1/4 I'd say 90% of us took near identical lines.
An almost insulting opening. No, I was not at Borrowdale, but YES, I ve been around the route enough times to know that on large sections of the course there is a very wide variety of lines to be taken

Number 2: Of course it would, you are talking of an almost 50% increase in numbers, as it was parking was just about full. Another 50% and I think we may have had trouble.
I disagree because, knowing that there would be large increase in numbers, the race organiser could make slight adjustments to the start and finish area, and even the route to accomodate these numbers.....its hardly rocket science. Why must the route be set in stone for a one off championship race?

Number 3: I actually think any race should donate some money (from the runners fee) to the local conservation/footpath repairs.
That's fair enough Iain, butas charity starts at home, i'd almost feel obliged (in as non provocative manner as I can) to ask whether the whole snowdon running guides (and I'm not having a dig here) as an operating business utilising and adding to erosion on the mountains, donates a share of its profits to similar footpath appeals etc etc. If it does, then seriously fairplay to youon the green credential front.

Number 4: there's benefitting locals and there is full stop pissing them off by blocking roads, toilets and taking over an area.
I think my original comments re: adjusting the start / finish areas accordingly and altering a route come in rather nicely here as they'd help prevent pissing locals off

Number 5: Yes I ran snowdon, jump over my back wall and I start running up it. No it isn't, its run as one race, but only 500 ran, like at borrowdale, make it a one off race and I doubt it would cope, I doubt many races could cope. Locals must be considered to a point, sadly without landowners say so races are tricky to organise. Read the CRoW act. And yes I think a large number of runners care about their environmental impact.
I'm afraid there are elements here I'd also choose to disagree with.....but its just a question of differing opinion and we're all entitled to our own

And I agree, I thought Borrowdale passed well. I've not heard of any runners who failed to get entry in the end. It was a nice size, a large race, but the start could tolerate it, and the start/finish area could too.

For some reason my comments have almost seen to be taken as a dig at the race organiser...hardly.....in fact, its a question of the opposite.....i simply was making the point that one off championship races would help prevent whinging, while helping increase participants from celtic countries (what the organising committee had hoped for) and also would be more managable than most people think.

Finally, for any numbnuts who think that by typing in bold I'm raising my voice- I'd like to see you ask some nerd typing in bold in a public library to keep his voice down-I'm merely typing in bold here so Iain can see my response to his comments. Is that OK?

[FellMonster]

This is a sad and dispiriting thread. If I believed for one minute that the average fell runner "doesn't give a monkey's about the environment" I would leave the FRA and never run another race.
As someone else had said- facts speak for themselves- hence the comments about litter after races such as pendle and duddon and now borrowdale as well. To be fair, my comments were particularly focused (though perhaps I didn't make this clear) on both the littering and more importantly the erosion front. How many fell runners think to themselves......"gosh, best not run that way today....the path is getting awfully eroded".....I'm not for a single second that the average fell runner couldnt care less about the environment...which is perhaps what my comments carelessly eluded to- in which case I apologise.

I'm new to this game and am immensely impressed by the care and commitment of the race organisers. It must be love because it aint money, the entrance fees to most races are insignificant.
And impressed, you should be to be fair....organisers do a bloody splendid and thankless job.
and yes, dont get me started with entry fees.....£32 for a 10km in some places......must be the large donation for all the erosion caused on the tarmac.....either that or the large erosion in Brendan Foster's trousers and pants caused by his equally large belly (and / or bellend- I'm not qualified to speculate here)

I'm sure everyone who enters intends to run,its just that life and sometimes death gets in the way. Some simple standby system should be easy to arrange although as already pointed out numbers were available on here up to the day.
Such standby places are usually in operation for these events....though IF (and I stress the IF) Borrowdale had been deliberately over-subscribed in the expectation of non starters, then what would have happened had over 500 truned up on the starting line....."Sorry, we're going to have draw lots......unlucky Simon Booth, you can't compete for a record 10th win this year after all"..............now THAT would have been interesting.

I'm so proud to be part of this thing we share (albeit at the back) all this demanding rules and namings and shamings seems to demean us all.

haha.....demanding rules shames us all......we have more in common than you may think dear friend

[FellMonster]

2) Do you REALLY think someone checks people's credentials and the race results from races they have said they completed on their entry forms? That would take a very keen, and enthusiastic organiser with a lot of spare time on his/her hands indeed!

I doubt that his would ever be done. However spot checks wouldn't take too long on the internet. I think the main aim is to leave you in no doubt as to the difficulty of the race that you are entering. If you lied it would also give the organizer some comeback in any ensuing litigation. God forbid.
The rest of your problems seam to have been well answered by other forumites, I hope you see their very valid points of view.

I agree that theyve been answered though will disagree on the extent of their validity if I may chose to be so bold.
You make a valid point that spot checks could be easily done, and I'm not for a second advocating that people should lie on their entry forms to race. However, at the end of the day, an organiser organises a race......there are rules put in place (and thankfully they are few and far between and largely common sense).....if an individual chooses to ignore or break these then it is largely on their own head.......hardly an organisers fault.....

has there been cases of litigation in fellrunning in the past? You've made me curious........surely its not that kind of sport.

[FellMonster]

Sadly, judging by the number of discarded gel packets I saw at Borrowdale a few don't...

If you take this alongside the increasing number of complaints at similar, mostly LONG, races of similarish stature eg- duddon and pendle, you start to see that in this respect, its getting in worse.

[FellMonster]

I MAY BE TOTALLY AND UTTERLY WRONG BUT:

No need to shout!

Typing in caps lock or in bold is not necessarily indicitave of shouting.......would you approach a person typing in caps lock or bold in a public library and ask them to keep the noise down? I think not!

[The Master]

Typing in caps lock or in bold is not necessarily indicitave of shouting.......would you approach a person typing in caps lock or bold in a public library and ask them to keep the noise down? I think not!

I dont care whether bold type is shouting or not, i just wish you'd stop typing

[FellMonster]

Trust it to be you, you numpty

[Graham Breeze]

Secondly- Your response made me laugh greatly.....nothing is getting on my goat.....if you look at last year (when Borrowdale was not a championship race, you'll see that there was still 500 limit and pre-entry and it all got messy and filled up before the time limit and there was still whinging etc.....the championship status, therefore, has made little difference to the numbers)

Actually Borrowdale was not pre-entry in 2007 and there was no limit. But hey! Why bother with facts when one has opinions?

Scoffer is one of the greatest guys in fellrunning and I was chatting to him only yesterday about Borrowdale and as far as I am concerned Borrowdale is his race and he can do what he likes with it...and best of all he never reads the Forum!

[Wheeze]

Sensible lad that Scoffer!
I reckon to get 460 racing from an entry limit of 500 is nigh on perfect.
Sounds like the scramble up Bessy Boot is the same mad melee as always. It does make one feel a bit like a vandal but it seems to recover OK.

One thing thats changed since my lake racing days is the advent of these gel sachets...sounds like an unavoidable excuse for the litter lout runners to do their thing. Personally, I'd ban 'em. Whats wrong with jelly babies?? Virtually the same but with a bit more gelatin thats all.