Identity Cards

[jackie]

So how do the people without passports or driving licences prove their ID when they obtain their ID card? You could claim to be anybody

It's not the actual ID card bit of plastic that I find the main worry - it's the huge, expensive, insecure database behind it, that links to other databases (health, tax, ANPR cameras, credit cards, internet use, phone calls), that will be accessible by pretty much all and sundry with very few checks. Add in the mission creep seen with eg RIPA (introduced to combat terrorism and serious crime - used to spy on parents, people binning rubbish, etc), or anti-terrorist legislation (used to prevent lawful protests, eject an elderly heckler from the Labour conference etc) and it's pretty obvious that the government is planning a huge data-mining exercise in order to suppress any sort of public protests or dissent.

[Grouse]

Hang on a minute. I'm the paranoiac round here.

[Grouse]

Acronym's really worry me. What's ANPR? and RIPA?








(I'm not sure I really want to know...)

[millipede]

Hang on a minute. I'm the paranoiac round here.

Don't worry. CL wants to handle your fingertips at the road side.

That must make you feel better.

[Grouse]

Oh aye. I tremble in anticipa

[Grouse]

tion.

[TheHeathens]

Don't worry. CL wants to handle your fingertips at the road side.

That must make you feel better.

He'll be after your saliva swab as well soon

[CL]

Getting their numberplates is enough - if they've cloned their plates, they sure as hell aren't going to give you their fingerprints! Aside from that, why should you have my fingerprints anyway? Who knows what an unscrupulous person could do with them given any future technological advances.



So what's the point in fingerprinting people - if people are driving their cars legally, you get their car registration. If they're not, you're not going to get their fingerprints anyway.

I drive legally but there's no way I would give my fingerprints to anyone at the roadside. My mate was in a taxi in Leeds and a car pulled out in front of them; the taxi driver actually steered into the car to create a collision and then tried to get the passengers to claim for personal injury through their friend's firm of solicitors. They were dodgy as hell and illustrates my point about you not knowing who you are giving details to.

I'd love to see you approach some (for example) armed robbers driving a stolen car with cloned plates that can't drive off (due to the collision) asking for finger prints!

The question was asked earlier how one obtains the identity of a person. The answer given by the same person was that you can't. I've demonstrated that you can by the 2 forementioned processes.

When in an accident you're required to exchange details I.e. identities. Names and addresses won't always do, neither will jotting down number plates. Exchanging fingerprints is a simple and honest way of establishing identity. I've seen it work in America for people who want to hire a car.

A person walks in to the car hire and says "I'd like to hire a car please." The Man on the other side of the counter says "sure that'll be 200bucks and a set of prints please." He doesn't give a stuff if the fellow has an I.D card, if he wants the car he'll have to give his prints.

The thing is Heathens you only associate the taking of fingerprints with criminal activities so you cannot conceive of an alternative process involving consenting adults.

[CL]

So how do the people without passports or driving licences prove their ID when they obtain their ID card? You could claim to be anybody

It's not the actual ID card bit of plastic that I find the main worry - it's the huge, expensive, insecure database behind it, that links to other databases (health, tax, ANPR cameras, credit cards, internet use, phone calls), that will be accessible by pretty much all and sundry with very few checks. Add in the mission creep seen with eg RIPA (introduced to combat terrorism and serious crime - used to spy on parents, people binning rubbish, etc), or anti-terrorist legislation (used to prevent lawful protests, eject an elderly heckler from the Labour conference etc) and it's pretty obvious that the government is planning a huge data-mining exercise in order to suppress any sort of public protests or dissent.

This is why in my example above the hire man asked for prints. He knows full well that I.D cards can be faked. The fact that I.D cards are compulsary doesn't make any difference to him. To establish I.D he gets their prints. No prints no car!

[Lola]

The claim that ID cards helps in the War on Terror is weak even by New Labour standards and we all remember the Iraq WMD file! We allow in so many so-called students with no background checks and tracking once in UK or on departure that electronic tagging the rest of us would serve no purpose. Secondly, if home-grown suicide bombers move to a target with an ID card does that make them any the less dangerous?

I once tried to use my then military ID to buy £200 of US$ from the Post Office to go on holiday. That card was good enough to get me into five (yes, 5) Government sponsored wars but the Post Office refused me the money on terrorist grounds because a UK military ID is not on the approved list of identification.

I rather fear that Jackie is closer to the truth, this is a ploy to gather data for 'other' purposes and make a few quid on the side as well.