Cheats

[paulo]

I think it's as much a matter of all of us making it socially unacceptable to side-step the rules as of enforcement by ROs - a bit like what happened with drink driving (or climbing over the drystone wall on the Langdale!). Hopefully things like this thread will prick the consciences of a few people (I'm sure many of the offenders have never spared it much thought) and let them reflect that they ARE regarded as cheats rather than as slight chancers and that they are causing unecessary risk to the ROs and the sport.The easy going amateur atmosphere and good sportsmanship are part of what many of us love about the sport. All that starting in a scout hut queuing with a bit of paper and a couple of quid then finishing with free jam butties and orange squash and stopping to check the guy who fell over is OK never mind losing a few places is precious and worth protecting. It doesn't seem to be the right home for contrived cheating. I'm sure many ROs would not want to do much more policing and get involved in the potential unpleasantness and confrontation that could result - so it's down to the rule abiding majority to speak up

all IMHO of course :-)

P

[DazTheSlug]

I always carry full kit irrespective of requirements (I'll leave out the trousers on short/low races, and even then only if not specified by the RO), but since I'll never see the sharp end of a race I don't really give a monkey's what other people do - although I do hope that maybe one of these people goes over on their ankle at the furthest/highest point from civilisation and has to limp 5 miles back while it clouds over, starts to rain and the wind gets up and they're just in a vest...
[and they can bite the fattest part of my @ss if they think I'm lending them mine]

[Luv Shack]

As ever there are lessons to be learned, by us & RO's..
(lots of us are RO's too, and/or assist at FR's & similar events)
Rudolp's observations are excellent, it's great when things go well..
But, as & when the sh*t hits the fan, things become very tricky indeed!
A courtroom of any kind is never a particularly good place to be..
An inquest is a very tough place....

So, I'll stick with me ramblings of last night, posted as ever in the wrong place (on the KT race thread), here they are again...edited a bit...
========================================
This may surprise a few among you.....
But, I "ran" the race with full kit in my bumbag today,
(full water-proofs, hat&gloves, compass&whistle&map, apricots, gels, etc etc...)
Even wore a shirt & hat for most of the way....
Plus, had extra food & drink/liquid....
Yes, twas very heavy too!

The way of these things in my book is...
Make it very very plain at registration,
that full kit is compulsory... (explain what full kit is on that day)..
Have a kit check too + random checks at the start,
(I'm not a fan of kit checks at the finish - although sometimes needed KIMM etc?)
make it known that that is that, AND IT WILL/DOES HAPPEN....
and if you demure you are off the list.. (DQ'd)
and not welcome back again..
It's not a big ask,
even when Kinder becomes the Med' for a day!

Cracking DAY, magical views all the way round..
Bit HOT for me and all that kit...
(mini rant over...well done to the kitted & unkitted...twas a tough run today)
=====================================
Rant Mk2 over... responsibilty v enjoyment...?
What we do provides us with massive enjoyment, some simple responsibilty is not much to ask...
__________________

[novice]

A different rant re yesterday - I had to pick up a couple of empty gel wrappers on the steep ascent upto South Head. I really hope people dropped them by accident!

[smoothy]

I always carry full kit irrespective of requirements (I'll leave out the trousers on short/low races, and even then only if not specified by the RO), but since I'll never see the sharp end of a race I don't really give a monkey's what other people do - although I do hope that maybe one of these people goes over on their ankle at the furthest/highest point from civilisation and has to limp 5 miles back while it clouds over, starts to rain and the wind gets up and they're just in a vest...
[and they can bite the fattest part of my @ss if they think I'm lending them mine]

What the 'minimalists' also need to think about is: you never know when something like this is going to strike. Foolishly, I ran Stretton Hills (AS - less than 6 miles; tops all well below 2000 feet) a week ago when not fully fit. After about 4 miles, my body refused to go any further. Cue rapid onset of hypothermia, even though I was carrying full gear (which I put on) & had food (which I ate). But for the quick reactions and care of the marshals, I would have been in serious bother. A marshal escorted me as I stumbled incoherently to the finish. I was lucky that my condition was picked up so quickly. On a longer race, or where there were fewer marshals, I might still be there. The biggest down side is that I now have a new claim to fame : last in a race. I can live with that.

[IainR]

but Smoothy that's not about kit that's about people entering races unprepared, no offence.

I think the biggest threat for fell running is people entering races as a way to see the hills, in what they think is a 'safe' environment, just following the rules, so have all the gear, but have no idea when to put it on, how to navigate or with any real training at all. It's just not fair on marshalls to be left out on the hill for hours.

When my arm was broken I'd run around the routes at the back just to see the routes, not having entered and I was always amazed how slow some people were and they were proud of it, laughing that they won't rush, these people weren't out of breath at all. I've no problem with slow runners, just ones who won't put the effort in and leave marshalls out for a long time.

Don't rush, just don't enter the races..

I've mixed views on this. I like the idea of spot checks at the end rather than checking everyone before, that's a faff. There's also a chunk of personal responsibility.

I like the saying 'take what you think you'll need', but as Ian says, the end story is it's the RO's call, if you don't agree, don't race. he's the one who has to deal with all the crap should anything go wrong.

[IanDarkpeak]

As ever there are lessons to be learned, by us & RO's..
(lots of us are RO's too, and/or assist at FR's & similar events)
Rudolp's observations are excellent, it's great when things go well..
But, as & when the sh*t hits the fan, things become very tricky indeed!
A courtroom of any kind is never a particularly good place to be..
An inquest is a very tough place....

heres a thought what would have happened if a kit check didn't happen at last years OMM.

I happy to see that the majority agree with me.

As I've said before all you need to do is have one marshall walk around the start line taking numbers of those who don't appear to have the kit and shout out their numbers at a spot check Even better if the start is 10 mins from registration as they will have to go back and miss the start.

[AJF]

heres a thought what would have happened if a kit check didn't happen at last years OMM.

I happy to see that the majority agree with me.

As I've said before all you need to do is have one marshall walk around the start line taking numbers of those who don't appear to have the kit and shout out their numbers at a spot check Even better if the start is 10 mins from registration as they will have to go back and miss the start.

I am pretty sure I wasn't kit checked at the OMM? Donkarlo can you confirm this? I did have full kit though plus some extra.

Just a side note, windproof is not waterproof, pertex without seams is not waterproof. Those inov8 things are not waterproof. regardless of your view on the need to carry waterproofs or if pertex will do, it isn't up to you to decide. It is the race organiser to decide.

Strangely enough I know of people who have posted on this thread saying its not on, should take full kit etc etc who haven't taken waterproofs when asked.

[DazTheSlug]

I ran Cader Idris at the end of last month
at the start, EVERYBODY got herded through a narrow funnel (like in a sheep pen!) ostensibly so kit could be checked
ONE guy had to faff about getting a waterproof jacket
I saw MANY people whose tiny bum-bags could not possibly have contained full kit
and on the other side of the coin, I saw lots of people with NO WATER on what was a really hot day (although a couple of water-stops en route) - I saw one guy trying to drink out of a puddle near the end - surely this is just as much of a safety issue (water weighs the most of course)

[IainR]

At Cader there was a water stop though, I ran with no water and found it OK. The worst bit was that there was meant to be water on the hill, there was but this wasn't really available, it wasn't offered at all, it just sat in drums by the path.