Maybe you should have a chat with Billy in the beer tent after the race...Originally Posted by TimW
Maybe you should have a chat with Billy in the beer tent after the race...
I'm told it does add about 5 minutes. That said, no one is getting very near to Billys best time even if you add 5 minutes. Simon Booth got within seconds of the record a few years ago, on the old course. But Billy was always miles ahead in his races, often with no on running near him, and set the record in a spell where he also set Wasdale, Ennerdale and Bob Graham records - all whilst doing 2 hours plus per night hard training on the back of a days physical work, and a 16 round British Championship.
I think the real question is how would Billy compare to "todays" runners if he got the easy racing season we now have, had the benefit of more informed training concepts than "get the miles in" and if he tapered for targetted races. My guess is he would blow them away.
There is no significant time difference between the new and old starts at Borrowdale. There is far greater difference caused by weather on the day, and individual route choices later on.
And btw, the Ennerdale record holder is Kenny Stuart, not Billy Bland:
http://www.lakelandclassicstrophy.org.uk/?page_id=11
The old Alfer is in !
(Could have sworn I said "Never again" last year !!)
Should there not be a new record for the new course then?
I agree with you that Billy's record is a class apart (besides Simon getting close in 1999) but how is anyone therefore ever going to beat it if the course is now longer? It was a hard enough record anyway!
It works the other way for they soon introduced a new record for the now shortened Duddon valley... I'm interested as to how the changes in routes affect the revised lakeland classic all-time points standings, Duddon had a 'standard' time of 3:00 with Borrowdale 2:50 but the two routes now produce very similar times, if anything Duddon being marginally faster.
In fairness I think Billy was informed of modern training methods but he refuted them. What he did worked for him, who's to say he'd have been any better with more 'thoughtful' or scientific (call it what you will) training? Maybe he would have been (scary thought) but not necessarily.
A bold statement re course times, Chris! Has it been empirically tested? I guess from your statement you have checked and compared the routes - what are the stats? I can't be sure, but did Billy not have the Ennerdale record prior to Kenny, and was Kenny's record only a matter of seconds quicker?
Tim, I agree with you - there should be a way of recognising the different courses per Duddon.
As to Billy's training, he won't be told, but I cannot see how a man could be performing at his best going into a long Lakeland Classic on the back of the heavy racing and training schedules he undertook.
It's always a problem, trying to compare a runner from one era with another more contemporary, and I appreciate that there can be a tendency to credit people with a reputation that can be confined to that era, but Billy's records are still standing at Borrowdale, Wasdale, and Bob Graham 27 years on, and plenty of good runners have had a go at them. I think there are some who were or are capable of taking his crown, but none has yet. Who knows what will happen this year? Not a lot I guess, given the clashing British race in Wales!!
Re: Borrowdale 2009
Kenny Stuart was the same era as Billy and yet trained differently, more like a road runner (needless to say he became one...) which Billy (if you read FITC) disagreed with, saying think how much better he'd (Kenny) have been if he'd trained like he (Billy) did. He was probably the only guy ever to say Kenny didn't train hard enough! The two approaches were different yet yielded similarly brilliant results and I think it's hard to say either was right or wrong. Has no one ever ran well whilst putting in the mileage only to ease down and run worse? I certainly have, even though I do tend to respond better to 'Kenny's' type of training...
As for the race at Y Garn deflecting from the quality at Borrowdale I doubt it'll make much difference, BD is probably the only race that gets a 'championship' standard field year in year out whether or not it actually is one.
So was the schedule of Billy's day so much heavier than the one of today? There was no English Championship back then, nor (seperate) LCT so I'm not so sure. What was the 16 race format? I heard certain classic races were always in it, am I right? Certainly beats the 4 race format of today, does anyone actually like this?
Must have taken my eye off the ball - failed to realise it was pre-entry only this year (doh!!).
It's not full yet is it? I know (now!) the the closing date for entires is 7th July....
If it is full I'd REALLY like a number if anyone's got one going(just persuaded the wife and kids to join me this year and bought a big tent today
)
There was no English Championship back then, nor (seperate) LCT so I'm not so sure. What was the 16 race format? I heard certain classic races were always in it, am I right? Certainly beats the 4 race format of today, does anyone actually like this?
A "Fellrunner of the Year" competition was introduced in 1972 and renamed the "British Fell Running Championship" in 1982. Over the years there have been various formats.
The 1981 events were:
Short: Pendle, Butter Crag, Meall An’t Suidhe, Burnsall, Blisco
Medium: Kentmere, Ben Lomond, Fairfield, Snowdon, Ben Nevis
Long: Welsh 1000m, Ennerdale, Wasdale, Borrowdale, Moffat
10 results counted and had to include 3 at each distance.
There was some variation in the races used but some of the races were used year after year.
The English Championship was first held in 1986.
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