Makes you proud to be British

[CL]

Step 1. All schools made private.

Step 2. School band together to maintain standards and curriculum (these form regional LEAs and a national supervising body).

Step 3. Parents demand more say in how schools are run.

Step 4. Government bows to public pressure so creates ministry in charge of overseeing education.

And we're back where we started. Thanks CL.

Not if people stick to proper principles instead of practising hypocrisy.

[CL]

That's a hell of an assumption to make. What about the political spectrum? What about sexuality? etc, etc, etc Hardly anything in life is as simple as good and evil or black and white. There are simply too many variables and permutations in the human condition to be so simplistic. Shades of grey aren't unacceptable, more often than not they're the most rational, compassionate and embracing stance to take.

I totally accept that Biara's decision could be interpreted as hypocritical but, I don't think you'd find many parents who'd put their own moral/political beliefs ahead of the long term welfare of their children. You could even argue that to do so would be selfish and immoral. This is an example of a variable making a black and white judgment impossible. An action that may seem immoral/wrong from one angle can easily appear moral/right from another. Also chucking around accusations of being a "wimp" etc is just petty , personal and beneath the debating standards that you like to credit yourself with.

The whole point of debating is to conduct a reasoned and impersonal discussion presenting valid evidence and informed argument. If someone succeeds in that then you should be gracious enough to concede points and, if necessary, change your own viewpoint. However, and I think this is why you manage to rub so many people up the wrong way on this forum rather than your often interesting/controversial opinions, you don't do this.

You tend to adopt a "fingers in ears loudly saying la, la, la" stone-walling approach, refusing to answer specific questions, not citing valid sources but instead resorting to circumstantial evidence, strange irrelevant analogies and subjective personal experience. This is why discussions involving you often become personal, it's nothing to do with your debating skill as you don't debate.

Come on, play the game properly and in the right spirit. You're obviously not stupid and the sort of nonsense with LD, The Heathens, me at times etc that we've all witnessed should be beneath you.

What justification is there for choosing something that is grey, when one can choose white?

[noel]

Not if people stick to proper principles instead of practising hypocrisy.

I really feel these debates would be able to progress further if we addressed your fixation on hypocrisy.

When did you start to have this animosity towards what you regard as hypocrisy? Was it linked to any life events?

[nikalas]

What justification is there for choosing something that is grey, when one can choose white?

Because, when you step back and consider all of the variables, external factors and viewpoints (ie: The Real World) very few things are black and white. Also, more often than not, which end is black and which is white comes down to personal preference, further complicating the distinction.

[john doe]

With the lose of Cadburys to Kraft and the inevitable job losses to follow another nail ,albeit seemingly small is knocked into the coffin of G.B. industries.
It seems to me ,when 'New Labour' came to power first Blair then Brown made a deliberate decision to back there mates in the City over manufacturing.While some other countries where prepared to invest in emerging technologies and existing industries our set of clowns offered tax breaks and incentives to attract a small group of already overpaid bankers and financiers.
Now its all gone wrong in the City and Hedge Fund managers are threating to relocate to Geneva, Britain is to be left with a dwindling collection of cottage industries, low paid callcentre and service sector jobs and an alarming increase in youth unemployment.
What I find most annoying in this great democracy of ours is the three people who seem to hold the most power are Brown, Mandleson and Levy. I cant remember voting for any of these dipshits,can you?

[noel]

With the lose of Cadburys to Kraft and the inevitable job losses to follow another nail ,albeit seemingly small is knocked into the coffin of G.B. industries.
It seems to me ,when 'New Labour' came to power first Blair then Brown made a deliberate decision to back there mates in the City over manufacturing.While some other countries where prepared to invest in emerging technologies and existing industries our set of clowns offered tax breaks and incentives to attract a small group of already overpaid bankers and financiers.
Now its all gone wrong in the City and Hedge Fund managers are threating to relocate to Geneva, Britain is to be left with a dwindling collection of cottage industries, low paid callcentre and service sector jobs and an alarming increase in youth unemployment.
What I find most annoying in this great democracy of ours is the three people who seem to hold the most power are Brown, Mandleson and Levy. I cant remember voting for any of these dipshits,can you?

I know we're all against a finance-based economy at the moment. However, in the long run, it's still a good idea to have a strong financial sector.

I don't think there has ever been a decision by government to deliberately get rid of industry, with the exception of the previous conservative government, who would argue that this was to depower a militant union that threatened the rule of law.

The truth is that companies would rather pay £5 an hour than £25 an hour for skilled staff. They can't do this in Britain. Also, it's not as though Cadbury wasn't also playing this game. They employ 5000 people in the UK, and 40,000 people abroad.

You're right in your final point. It will be different when Cameron and Osborne are in power. Traditional industries will still dwindle and they'll be even more supportive of the financial sector. However, we'll be able to blame ourselves for electing them.

[CL]

I really feel these debates would be able to progress further if we addressed your fixation on hypocrisy.

When did you start to have this animosity towards what you regard as hypocrisy? Was it linked to any life events?

Actually it was when I started debating with you.

[marty mcfly]

What justification is there for choosing something that is grey, when one can choose white?

What you seem to see as 'white' is very different to what many people see as white.

[CL]

Because, when you step back and consider all of the variables, external factors and viewpoints (ie: The Real World) very few things are black and white. Also, more often than not, which end is black and which is white comes down to personal preference, further complicating the distinction.

If there isn't any black and white, there also isn't any grey. Grey IS a mixture of black and white.

Only by identifying the blacks and whites can you distinguish between the shades of grey. In other words if you cannot define black and white(good and evil), you have no chance of defining grey.

Seriously, no chance.

[TheHeathens]

In other words if you cannot define black and white.

You can't define it because it's subjective; your idea of white may differ from Nikalas's (for example).

I would say it's the other way round: because you can't define black and white, everything is grey.