DQ the cheats

[Witton Park]

I'd just eliminate the term windproof and go for waterproof - saves all the debate.

[Mike T]

" This my "waterproof gets wet from sweat and my windproof is keeps me warm when I'm running in the rain argument" is bobbins. Your waterproof won't be wet from sweat when you lying in a bog waiting for mountain rescue to pick you up or struggling down from a mountain on the edge of hypothermia will it? I doubt a damp windproof will save your life either. "

If you follow this argument to it's logical conclusion there would never be any place for windproof kit - clearly many, including the powers that be in the FRA, disagree.

[simgreen78]

I'd just eliminate the term windproof and go for waterproof - saves all the debate.

A simple and effective solution. Fully agree.

[Stolly]

" This my "waterproof gets wet from sweat and my windproof is keeps me warm when I'm running in the rain argument" is bobbins. Your waterproof won't be wet from sweat when you lying in a bog waiting for mountain rescue to pick you up or struggling down from a mountain on the edge of hypothermia will it? I doubt a damp windproof will save your life either. "

If you follow this argument to it's logical conclusion there would never be any place for windproof kit - clearly many, including the powers that be in the FRA, disagree.

In some ways the logic of fell race rules is that waterproofs/windproofs are carried in case you get injured and are then put on to keep you warmer while you're inactive. Reality is that most people who run in the hills alot will always wear clothing to try and suit the weather or put it on if its needed, especially so when running solo. In fell races though there's alot of not being willing to lose places and/or time by putting on the extra kit, meaning that runners can actually have all the kit and meet all the kit requirements but choose to get very cold and wet rather than apply some common sense. These people will obviously benefit from putting on their waterproof/windproofs if they get injured but could be too cold by that point for the extra layers to make much difference. At the same time I wear both my waterproof and my windproof while out running, sometimes purposely one over the other and sometimes whimsically, but I never lose sight of how hot they might be making me underneath (and yep I sweat more in my waterproof) and how that sweat, were I have to stop, might rapidly cool and cool me down regardless. There is no simple answer but, were you to actually have to stop while in a race, there's agood chance that your waterproofs/windproofs won't add a great deal to your safety anyway, whether you are carrying the right kit or indeed wearing it

Just an (admittedly) unhelpful point

[Eleanor]

Oh I see, the seams are taped when you buy it. DOH! You don't have to send me to DQ gear prison after all.

[IainR]

There is no simple answer but, were you to actually have to stop while in a race, there's agood chance that your waterproofs/windproofs won't add a great deal to your safety anyway, whether you are carrying the right kit or indeed wearing it

Just an (admittedly) unhelpful point

Spot on... I think few seem to understand just how much time a thin shell would give you...sitting down and waiting for help is a risky choice.. even with minor breaks just keep going, get to a marshall, or get off the hill ASAP.

[Trimm Trab]

Spot on... I think few seem to understand just how much time a thin shell would give you...sitting down and waiting for help is a risky choice.. even with minor breaks just keep going, get to a marshall, or get off the hill ASAP.

It's a shame you weren't there to explain this to the bloke who so selfishly 'chose' to inconvenience the MRT at Langdale this year - nevermind the fact that you can see the inside of your knee joint, just keep going because that's less risky. Brilliant.

[johnmc]

Talking of the press. Many years ago some dickhead mates of mine got stuck in Oxlow when they pulled the ropes before checking they could get through the connection. The press reported that they awaited rescue "huddled together under a spare blanket" presumably taken from the airing cupboard. (rather than
space blanket)

That's one the spellchecker wouldn't pick up.

[Wheeze]

I'm not into all this vetting of runners...as it is have you completed the 3 AM's/AL's is a box ticking exercise anyway... you just wait for good days and jog behind people like most do..

Most runners can't navigate anyway..

There has always been novices in the sport, its an adult event. Just a simple few statements, like you would at a climbing wall... 'can you tie in' YN etc...

You aren't assessed... just simple statements to Y/N... just do the same for racing.. 'can you calculate and run on a bearing'... 'can you read a map to sufficient ability to navigate the route'... 'do you have the apropriate gear (X,Y,Z)'...

I think vetting is actually opening up organisers for liability should an accident happen to a runner they have vetted competent...

At the moment the organiser takes too much responsibility. Look at the peris, shortened because the organiser thought those at the back of the field couldn't have coped...It should be on the runners. there's too much passing the blame. If you as an adult say you can cope and you can't... tough..it's fine for climbing and the professionally run BMC (which we all know is light years ahead of the FRA in terms of dealing with risk in outdoor pursuits).. I'm not using the term extreme sports... the only people I know who use that term are incompetent... hence why its extreme to them..

I don't think not having gear is that common anyway, but its pretty obvious when people don't. But we've all stuffed two jackets in when we have forgotten bottoms and just pulled out the material...

All this banning lark... its the FA all over again.... TBh you'd just race WFRA, SHR, BOFRA, Road, XC, Ultra's etc, so all it creates is more anymosity... when a simple bit of education would suffice...

I'm with you on this one IainR. Part of the attraction of fell running is learning to take responsibility for yourself in challenging conditions. I dont want to be told what sort of full body cover I should choose but I agree that for the general 'safe' running of the event, a full body cover notice should be in place if needed. As you point out, the wind v water proof argument is largely specious and I don't think RO's should be put in the position of making the distinction. Like I say, as it stands, I think the FRA position on this is the best of a contentious situation.

[IainR]

It's a shame you weren't there to explain this to the bloke who so selfishly 'chose' to inconvenience the MRT at Langdale this year - nevermind the fact that you can see the inside of your knee joint, just keep going because that's less risky. Brilliant.

brilliant. So he'd got help.. he knew the situation.. how much time he had to wait... he didn't wait in vane hope..

I hopped 6 km when a stake went through my calf in a remote valley in NZ. I knew waiting it out was a long long wait and reckoned I could hop that in 3 hrs.

You weigh up the situation..is staying less risky than dieing of hypothermia...