DQ the cheats

[Witton Park]

Fear not Daz; Selwyn and Scoffer have never ventured anywhere near the Forum and so will continue to organise their classic lakeland races unburdened by the infinite wisdom displayed here by the armchair race organisers!

Oi you - who's armchair?

[millipede]

Did you beat me on Sunday?

Not physically, obviously.

[Wheeze]

Fear not Daz; Selwyn and Scoffer have never ventured anywhere near the Forum and so will continue to organise their classic lakeland races unburdened by the infinite wisdom displayed here by the armchair race organisers!

Yeah! watch it Breezy or I'll put the fearsome Steam Bunny Stomp back on JUST for you! Oh, how we'd laugh at the torture!!!:wink:

[IainR]

Fear not Daz; Selwyn and Scoffer have never ventured anywhere near the Forum and so will continue to organise their classic lakeland races unburdened by the infinite wisdom displayed here by the armchair race organisers!

Or the wisdom of people who are outdoor professionals... your call...

And don't hide behind that 'I've been organising races since 1993 what do I know"..Would you go to a witch Dr who has been practising for 30 years or a qualified MD...

The forum is for debate... don't be so precious... if you can't handle debate don't read the bloody thing!

[daz h]

Fear not Daz; Selwyn and Scoffer have never ventured anywhere near the Forum and so will continue to organise their classic lakeland races unburdened by the infinite wisdom displayed here by the armchair race organisers!

Thank god for that Graham
nice one

[IainR]

This is a difficult area.

But consider this for a moment.

You are the organiser of a Long A category fell race in mountain terrain. You give your race, quite rightly, an ER designation. But you chose to do nothing to check on the experience of competitors.

The unthinkable happens and there is a tragedy. Surviving relatives are advised to have a go (legally) at the RO.

One of the questions the Coroner will ask (never mind the barrister for the family in civil proceedings) is, what steps did you take to to check the experience of this particular, and other, competitors? (Because that goes to your credibility as a race organiser.)

Do you want to answer "I didn't have any system at all" or do you want to be able to answer that you did have a system, and then allow your legal/advisory team to argue about its validity/worth in the particular case?

Then they ask how did you vet them? What qualifications have you got to vet them..

In Fell running box ticking is all too common. Look at the leadership in fell running? How can that compare to a 10 day ML to take people out on fell walks in the same terrain? Have a fatality and they'll bring in the experts and rip it to shreds.. either do things properly by the book or not at all. I do worry we see too much of the inbetween, good intentions but could end up making the situation worse and providing false sense of security.

As I said earlier, statements of competence and risk are commonly used by the BMC (Can you do X type questions) - they do not vet experience to allow an adult to use a climbing wall.. if a participant makes a mistake and gets injured and there was no fault of the wall or staff then there is no comeback. The BMC is a professional organisation which has been dealing with a high risk sport with great realism for many years. Maybe the FRA should look to them for guidance. At the moment the FRA seem to look to UKA rather than the BMC/MLTA's for guidance, for me there are times when the BMC/MLTA's would be more appropriate partners to work with. - leadership in the mountains for one...

[IainR]

Ive just ran 14 miles over the hills with FULL waterproof gear in my bumbag, along with i phone and dog shit bags and a dog lead. A compass, passing clouds and langdale map. Then i did 40 mins on the rollers and still the kit debate rages on.Im just going to bang my head against the shed door.Jeeesus

From someone with over 10,000 posts.. :-)

[Stagger]

Then they ask how did you vet them? What qualifications have you got to vet them..

In Fell running box ticking is all too common. Look at the leadership in fell running? How can that compare to a 10 day ML to take people out on fell walks in the same terrain? Have a fatality and they'll bring in the experts and rip it to shreds.. either do things properly by the book or not at all. I do worry we see too much of the inbetween, good intentions but could end up making the situation worse and providing false sense of security.

As I said earlier, statements of competence and risk are commonly used by the BMC (Can you do X type questions) - they do not vet experience to allow an adult to use a climbing wall.. if a participant makes a mistake and gets injured and there was no fault of the wall or staff then there is no comeback. The BMC is a professional organisation which has been dealing with a high risk sport with great realism for many years. Maybe the FRA should look to them for guidance. At the moment the FRA seem to look to UKA rather than the BMC/MLTA's for guidance, for me there are times when the BMC/MLTA's would be more appropriate partners to work with. - leadership in the mountains for one...

Maybe someone with all your qualifications and experience should put themselves forward to serve on the FRA committee!
Then you can help make all the right decisions.

[IainR]

Maybe someone with all your qualifications and experience should put themselves forward to serve on the FRA committee!
Then you can help make all the right decisions.

I was waiting for that nugget... surprised it took so long for someone to grasp...

However I think debating on the forum is perfectly valid.. certainly talking about subjects like this is more useful than todays shite or someother inane topic.....

Seriously one day I should but at the moment I'm working away all the time, 10 of the last 15 weeks in the US, trying to keep training and running the guiding business.. so for now I'll focus on those 3...

I just think my comments re the BMC are valid..and shouldn't be ignored or mocked just because I'm not a committee member... whose post was more useful.. your jibe or my suggestion that statements of competence are used by one of the biggest and most professionally run outdoor bodies in Britain...

[maddaddy]

This is a difficult area.

But consider this for a moment.

You are the organiser of a Long A category fell race in mountain terrain. You give your race, quite rightly, an ER designation. But you chose to do nothing to check on the experience of competitors.

The unthinkable happens and there is a tragedy. Surviving relatives are advised to have a go (legally) at the RO.

One of the questions the Coroner will ask (never mind the barrister for the family in civil proceedings) is, what steps did you take to to check the experience of this particular, and other, competitors? (Because that goes to your credibility as a race organiser.)

Do you want to answer "I didn't have any system at all" or do you want to be able to answer that you did have a system, and then allow your legal/advisory team to argue about its validity/worth in the particular case?

If you take Borrowdale, I think, I could enter having completed Kinder Trog and Windgather. Both done on fine clear days and involving zero navigation. Neither give a good representation of being competant to do Borrowdale with clag down and getting cold and lost!