Unwritten Fell Running Rules

[codramble]

ALWAYS queue at stiles should be the rule. Many of us think it already is. Even if the gate, fence, wall appears to be solid it might not be and broken gates etc antagonise already hard-pressed farmers leading them to withdraw cooperation/permission etc. leading to the end of the race. More and more seem to be ignoring this rule while myself and other idiots (particularly in the pack on bigger races) patiently queue at stiles. 30 years ago I tried to climb a gate and was heavily barracked but these days the waters seem to have been muddied.
Photographs of leading runners jumping fences, walls and gates appear in the FR. I have even seen marshalls encouraging people to climb fences. In a recent race I saw about a dozen runners climbed a metal gate in race next to a stile, sometimes 3 at a time! No doubt this was after various strictures from the RO.
The "rule" is contained in "Access and environmental guidelines for organisers of fell races" in the FRA handbook page 119"Boundary Protection -Limit wall and fence crossing to specific locations eg. particular stiles or gates and ensure that this is enforced". Do we keep to this or do we descend into an anarchic free for all?

[mr brightside]

We've discussed this already, jumping a stile queue by going over a wall or fence is acceptable if you don't touch it. I recently passed 2 runners on the Withins Skyline by hurdling the fence rather than waiting for the stile, it's acceptable because the risk of injury is high and damage isn't caused. I can see an emerging use of Parkour in fellrunning in years to come...Today's Parkour! Using cripple holes is also an acceptable way of cutting queues.

[codramble]

I beg to disagree. What happens if the "hurdle" turns into a crash into the wall/fence etc? I am never far enough up the field to see people who are capable of/confident in hurdling. From where I stand they are all touching, grasping, pulling. heaving, falling over these obstacles. Are we saying that there is one rule for the "elite" and another rule for the rest?
The distinction between hurdling and climbing may be a difficult one for many people leading us lesser mortals to think "well if they can do it why can't I?
Surely it is more effective to say ALL must queue? Fell runners generally want to keep things simple. In any case I would think that there is rarely a question of queuing at the front end so hurdling has little advantage except bravado.

[gafrymynydd]

antagonise already hard-pressed farmers

Hahahahaha!!!! thats the funniest thing I've heard for a while!! :w00t:

Do you KNOW how much farmers get in single farm payments, and subsidy's???? I do!!! and let me tell you it will really annoy you when you find out how much!! Money that they get without even getting out of bed in the morning!! doubt it they even bother repairing/renewing a fence or a wall unless there's a european grant of tax payers money come through :thunbdown: could go really deep in to it but will leave it there.

As for the rule, wouldn't jump a wall as they are allways to high and the chance of injury with a collapse is quite high and it would anoy the farmer as he would probably have to get on his quad bike and work for 2-3hrs and would possibly pull out of leting the event carry on.
As for a fence of 4ft high...................would have no hesitation of clearing it........hand on top of the post and hop........job done :-)

[Stolly]

I'm pretty sure that hill farmers don't earn much in income on average and don't get huge amounts in subsidies either. This article from a couple of years ago infers that hill farmers have some of the lowest incomes in the country http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co....ing_subsidies/ . That said a lot of farmers wealth is in the capital value of what they own rather than the income derived but, all the same, its a hard life I'm sure. And regardless of farmers wealth trashing their walls and fences is vandalism whatever way you look at it.

[gafrymynydd]

You'd be surprised, very surprised!! what hill farmers get. Poor land is what pays best these days!! they are squabling over it in these parts because of it. There is a farmer 5 miles from where I live who pleads poverty!!! and does F.all most of the time................found out through www.----------------.org he has recieved in subsidys since 2001.........................drum role....................£765,245. That's subsidys!! not to mention income generated through the farm. They all plead poverty and it's very tiring to hear, especially when you see them in their 11 plate 4x4 and know they are able to claim full family tax credits.

Still, no excuse to do any damage to the countryside

[Penguin]

You'd be surprised, very surprised!! what hill farmers get. Poor land is what pays best these days!! they are squabling over it in these parts because of it. There is a farmer 5 miles from where I live who pleads poverty!!! and does F.all most of the time................found out through www.----------------.org he has recieved in subsidys since 2001.........................drum role....................£765,245. That's subsidys!! not to mention income generated through the farm. They all plead poverty and it's very tiring to hear, especially when you see them in their 11 plate 4x4 and know they are able to claim full family tax credits.

Still, no excuse to do any damage to the countryside

if we didn't get permisson to run the race on farmers land half the race fixtures wouln't exist!

[gafrymynydd]

I know that.
three of the races here in N.wales go on my family's land (uncle and cousin) and they have no objection or problem with the races.

I just commented on the quote "hard pressed farmers" quote.

hahaha!! dont take offence..........they dont when i take the piss out of them, it's their luck and that's it :-) they know the score.........better than we do anyway :-)

[Wheeze]

There's no guarantee of the condition of a wall/fence/gate. Likewise, there will never be a consensus on whether queuing or jumping/climbing a boundary is fair and/or in the spirit of the event.
At present, we have clear instructions as codramble says but of course, in the heat of competition, who ever carries the full rule book in their head.
Mr Brightside thinks it is fair to steal an advantage on others who may be queuing and others will say this is cheating or unspirited.

RO's can do a lot to take the heat of of this by using routes that avoid such obstructions early on but of course, this is not always possible. So what to do?
It's a tough one I think.

[bigfella]

Are these transgressors the same BMW drivers who speeed past a queue of traffic and then dive in at the last moment when a lane is closed on the motorway?