Development of Young Athletes

[TurboTom]

If you dont mind can I sling in my opinion for what its worth....im far from elite in my category, however I am 19 and for 3 years from 16 onwards had a lot of frustration with regards to age limits.......under 18 I completed 3 mountain marathons, a marathon, numerous races and race routes, 3 legs of the BG continuously. I hasten to add that I didnt break any age distance rules the very first time I was pulled up on it. I found my strengths werent suited for short races but happened to be very stubborn and had the ability to knock out LSD weeks of 40-60 miles whilst still improving over a short distance. In my mind, I always wanted to do Lakeland Classics and races such as the Peris so I trained from a young age for that- focused. Many people know me on the forum and know thats my taste. However I look at the flip side now, Ive been out for 10 months with an ankle injury that recurs often (I hasten to add that this was from a twist not over use) and im now struggling to get back onto the bandwagon as im more inclined to try and do the long races I want quickly.

Every now and again you'll get a junior who prefers longer distance races and is inspired by the classic longs and to manage them perhaps an extension of distance would be good to stop first season as a senior burnout. My list for last year was Long Mynd, Mourne Peaks, Duddon, Wasdale, Ennerdale, Peris and Langdale......I only managed 2 due to injury but as you can see all miles above what the rules state I could have managed only months before.....a little inconsistent I think

[CL]

Chris - I have to say I'm not sure and that isn't what I'm on about really and I did say in my last post that the racing was a side issue. I'm interested that Chris Smale and others have done long races young and I am sure that intrinsically kids are far more able to do long distances than we give them credit for.
But in terms of improving performance I don't think it is a good idea.
In terms of longer races, I am angling for a little leeway. We have our international U18/U16 spending 4 years running in races generally no longer than 4 mile. It's worse for lads, as they can be thrown in to a U20GB race where they can have an uphill only race longer than that.

And clearly they are lots of reasons why our male endurance runners, as much as I admire them, are not as good as they used to be. Other sports taking more of the pool of talent perhaps, but also we have a dumbing down approach to most things in life these days.

The target seems to be "average" and that can't be right.

But as Graham B stated some time ago they are not stopping people from doing what they want to do. When I was 16/17 you couldn't run much more than 3 or 4 miles in races but I was already 'cruising' around my 20 milers at 6min mile pace. I knew then that when I reached the senior ranks I'd be ready so I just got on with doing what I wanted to do.

I'm proof that race limits on young people will not prevent the determined athlete from running long distances . You just have to accept that your time will come.

[CL]

It may well be that blame for this or that is being apportioned. That is not my standpoint. i am not seeking to blame any lack of success on the international scene at the door of limiting maximum race distances to just 6m (despite it being seen as a worthy rule change I just cant get this metrification) What I am saying is that for some then the possibility of racing over slightly longer distances may not be a bad thing and may not be detrimental. Looking to debate this with a view to change is not a bad thing. Its not about just the very best . Why doe sit have to be about winners. I am not suggesting that we should only think about juniors who are capable of winning races potentially running longer races. Whats wrong with someone who is strong but a middle of the pack runner doing it. I thought this stared of about developing juniors and part of this is about fun and challenge. If the odd occasion to take part in longer races keep ist keen for runners then that is also a good thing. Its not just about the very elite.

I dealt with this on post 79.

[LissaJous]

(..) I am sure that intrinsically kids are far more able to do long distances than we give them credit for.
But in terms of improving performance I don't think it is a good idea.

Now that you've made that clear, I think we're a lot closer to agreement than I thought we were. I suspect it is safer for a competent 'mid-pack' U18 to run a medium than a 'performance' athlete, because trying to perform (in that sense) over longer distances is precisely what will cause burnout in a flash. I have less of a problem if some U18s want to train over longer distances: training is not racing. And yes, a few competent U18s will have to wait until they reach 18 before they can enter their best races. But a medium race equates to a 10-mile+ road race (with extra hazards), not a 10K, so I can't see the rules changing. This isn't that much of a problem because:

(..) We have our international U18/U16 spending 4 years running in races generally no longer than 4 mile. It's worse for lads, as they can be thrown in to a U20GB race where they can have an uphill only race longer than that.

I think we're also generally agreeing that we can do something about this, without changing any rules at all, by creating/promoting tougher Short category races. There are quite a few listed in the calendar as minimum age 18. These ROs could be asked nicely if they would consider being responsible for U18s in their races. And if they are unwilling, then clubs with big juniors sections might consider creating suitable races. This is already beginning to happen through the Juniors Championship and through the initiative of ROs. It'll be interesting how new races at Cowpe and Hawkswick pan out this year, and Al's possibly revamped Coiners next year.

LissaJous is now off-forum until Friday

[manothemoors]

We're back onto race rules again.
As coaches, at the club, we can help each individual athlete with their development according to their needs. If this involves them running further, with more mature groups, within the club environment then fine, if that's what the athlete needs.
Personally, I'd rather see them running more quickly over the existing race distances. A runner who wants to be competitive over further can be improving their 1500/3000m/5k performances in preparation. To be good at 10k and beyond as a senior, you'd want to be seriously quick over 3k/5k as a junior (on whatever surface).
On the subject of our elite internationals, they have lagged behind because they have been running too slowly over middle to long distances, not because they haven't been running far enough. Mo Farah wins because he can run his last 400 in just over 50 seconds. The same goes for Bekele. Both are still at the sharp end over 1500m.

[biara]

What are the rules for the countries doing well at international level? Is there a limit to what the Italians junior athletes can run? How do our rules compare?

[OB1]

Kenya & Ethiopia: Fartlek to / from school (and / or when herding the goats), and hope to join a club / get spotted and race as a late teenager / adult. And diet (noun not verb), helped a bit by climate and altitude and geneology / Darwin. Pretty close to a Lakeland shepherd rather than a modern city-boy/gal?

[Jack Winn]

Hello everyone (anyone), I'v been a forum reader for quite a while and have only once been tempted to post on it, big mistake. However,I'm moved to say how much I have enjoyed this thread. It's nice to see so many people concerned with the future of fell running, for that's what these young athletes are. The views of some coaches are interesting, though maybe a little too philosophical at times (keep it simple). I'd be interested to hear a bit more from the young athletes themselves though. You may not know how to achieve what you want, but it would be nice to hear your views on what it is you want. It's your future.

[TurboTom]

Hello everyone (anyone), I'v been a forum reader for quite a while and have only once been tempted to post on it, big mistake. However,I'm moved to say how much I have enjoyed this thread. It's nice to see so many people concerned with the future of fell running, for that's what these young athletes are. The views of some coaches are interesting, though maybe a little too philosophical at times (keep it simple). I'd be interested to hear a bit more from the young athletes themselves though. You may not know how to achieve what you want, but it would be nice to hear your views on what it is you want. It's your future.

Correct, its funny how when I was younger and used to post more frequently...i.e. before I reached senior age last year, there were a few of us who believed/knew as juniors that we were capable of doing longer races..my approach was enter underage- then eventually just started running round the courses, for training but also to prove it could be done.

At 16 a person can have a full time job, house, join the army yet if they were to dare enter Widdop fell race, then their body according to the rules just wouldn't cope...its bollocks

[biara]

At 16 a person can have a full time job, house, join the army yet if they were to dare enter Widdop fell race, then their body according to the rules just wouldn't cope...its bollocks

I don't think that you are allowed on frontline fighting at 16 though!!

Aside from that, the rules are a one size fits all which is generally correct, yes there are exceptions who may do better and this is what a few here are arguing for but the FRA is not doing its job if it is reckless with future health. People here do have sympathies with your view.

Minor aside just to illustrate a point, I used to teach a pupil who was excellent at rugby (played England under 19s etc) he now plays professional for London Scottish, he had a training program from Saracens, who had signed him on schoolboy terms. He was not allowed to do certain strength exercises as Saracens did not believe his body was strong enough. At the time he was approx 15stone and 6ft4ish, he accepted the ruling went onto play England under 19s and now still plays (he's 23 now). Who is to say if he had done these exercises would he have survived in the game? I'd rather do little young and keep going for ages, than do it all young and have little elsde to aim for. Sorry Tom, you might be one of the exceptions who could have managed young but would all your fellrunning friends?
Hope Uni is going well.....