FMR Coaching Courses relevance

[Witton Park]

You almost need to go on a course to get your head around this.

It's a real shame.

I fully understand the need to look at coaching and constantly see how the coach education can be done better.

However, when I entered coaching back in 2005, there was a clear structure.
Level 1 to 4 with 1 being assistant and 2 to 4 being varied levels of qualification for group coaches.
A coach could stick to their discipline and climb up the levels eg with endurance specific modules, or they could branch out and stay at their level but add disciplines to be able to broaden their skills.
Many did both.
Once you had done level 2 core (a weekend) you then added disciplines by doing event specific modules (again a weekend). No need to do the Core again.
I think the late Norman Matthews was Level 4 endurance but also level 2 or 3 for several of the other athletic disciplines.

More importantly we had course tutors able and qualified to deliver. I do wonder how much of this free online system is to mask the fact that we have been unable to deliver a full range of coaching courses now for almost 4 years.

I know we won't go back now, but I just think that too often our sport is led down an unnecessary path by sports academics and politicians in the name of change and in order justify their roll.

[AndyA]

I know we won't go back now, but I just think that too often our sport is led down an unnecessary path by sports academics and politicians in the name of change and in order justify their roll.

We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganised. Presumably the plans for our employment were being changed. I was to learn later in life that, perhaps because we are so good at organising, we tend as a nation to meet any new situation by reorganising; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralization.

........

[Witton Park]

..and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralization..

That is brilliantly put.

It explains so much of what happens in life as a result of much of the establishment, not just the Feng Shui with the coaches courses.

[Mike T]

That is brilliantly put.

It explains so much of what happens in life as a result of much of the establishment, not just the Feng Shui with the coaches courses.

Sums up what happens in the NHS nicely.

[wycoller]

To be fair we were under a lot of pressure to adopt the UKCC set up in athletics, which is widely used by other sports. This was close to completion when the course fees became clear along with feedback that many people wouldn't be able to commit the time for the courses.

Im also a swimming coach and my level one was actually more of a commitment than my level 2 endurance in athletics.

Its no good having a great coach training programme if most people cannot afford either the cost or time!

a hasty retreat was made but I believe that we had to move away from the old levels because they aren't comparable to UKCC.

Someone more involved than me might be able to clarify this better.

[Witton Park]

To be fair we were under a lot of pressure to adopt the UKCC set up in athletics, which is widely used by other sports. This was close to completion when the course fees became clear along with feedback that many people wouldn't be able to commit the time for the courses.

Im also a swimming coach and my level one was actually more of a commitment than my level 2 endurance in athletics.

Its no good having a great coach training programme if most people cannot afford either the cost or time!

a hasty retreat was made but I believe that we had to move away from the old levels because they aren't comparable to UKCC.

Someone more involved than me might be able to clarify this better.

All I can say is that the old Level 2 Core + Endurance was the same as the FMR2 UKCC course, which is why I was so disappointed at the time. They even used some of the UKA literature and scenarios.
Feng Shui and little else in my opinion Paul. It even had those coaching bugs :w00t:

[Lecky]

I went on that first pilot course, and thought it was excellent. I suspect that the next versions of the course were even better.

It is no surprise that it used some of the UKA Endurance course, as a lot of the emphasis was on how to coach, but mainly using scenarios that were fellrunning based.

I doubt that the endurance course had anything about uphill and downhill running for fellrunning, using fellrunning videos and examples. Nor would it have had a section on navigation. The discussion on risk assessment was very interesting (albeit with some significant misinformation that I was able to correct on the second weekend) with a number of experienced orienteering and fellrunning coaches debating whether you can let athletes run out of sight. (The answer is it is allowed but depends on the athlete, their experience, where they are going and how you supervise this.) I'm absolutely sure that I, and pretty much everyone else learnt a great deal about coaching and specifically coaching fellrunning.

I don't know where the new coaching structure will take us - but I do know that we have good people involved in making it happen and fitting it to our needs.

[manothemoors]

I'd like to clarify that the anomalous situation I found myself in regarding CiRF and the UKA coaching structure has now been resolved.
I'd like to add my tuppen'orth about the delivery of the CiRF course (not the Fell Running Course). Much of the content and video material was based around fell running and was very useful. The course tutors (Graeme, Bash and Steve) were absolutely first rate....I'd recommend any course delivered by them.

[Witton Park]

I went on that first pilot course, and thought it was excellent. I suspect that the next versions of the course were even better.

It is no surprise that it used some of the UKA Endurance course, as a lot of the emphasis was on how to coach, but mainly using scenarios that were fellrunning based.

I doubt that the endurance course had anything about uphill and downhill running for fellrunning, using fellrunning videos and examples. Nor would it have had a section on navigation. The discussion on risk assessment was very interesting (albeit with some significant misinformation that I was able to correct on the second weekend) with a number of experienced orienteering and fellrunning coaches debating whether you can let athletes run out of sight. (The answer is it is allowed but depends on the athlete, their experience, where they are going and how you supervise this.) I'm absolutely sure that I, and pretty much everyone else learnt a great deal about coaching and specifically coaching fellrunning.

I don't know where the new coaching structure will take us - but I do know that we have good people involved in making it happen and fitting it to our needs.

I would agree Lecky - for anyone who hadn't already done endurance level 2 it was probably perfect and I did feed that back in - good course, well delivered by Graeme and Bashir
But the point I am making is that it was the UKA Endurance Course with a little tweaking to use a fell scenario rather than a XC scenario for example and the literature I was given for my pre-course was actually the UKA literature. Of course at the time Jeremy and Graeme refuted that, but they would wouldn't they.
The most interesting part for me on that first weekend was the uphill running technique video.

[Stagger]

I would agree Lecky - for anyone who hadn't already done endurance level 2 it was probably perfect and I did feed that back in - good course, well delivered by Graeme and Bashir
But the point I am making is that it was the UKA Endurance Course with a little tweaking to use a fell scenario rather than a XC scenario for example and the literature I was given for my pre-course was actually the UKA literature. Of course at the time Jeremy and Graeme refuted that, but they would wouldn't they.
The most interesting part for me on that first weekend was the uphill running technique video.

I was also on the pilot course with you both and was disappointed with a lot of the course due to the lack of fell running material.
Agree with WP the up hill video was a great point.