Fence/wall crossing on MMs

[karen nash]

Name and shame if they are cheating and not going to controls. I did this at the SLMM a couple of years ago when running with my son as he was furious in the way that kids can be. Lady of the mixed pair said she was injured- i said that was fine but presumably as injured did not expect to win! Planner and organiser upheld my complaint
This weekend I had my own dibber but opted for tyvex so I couldn't lose it. having said that I can often pull it over my wrist as they put it on so loose (never have- but could)

[nutkey]

39 to 42? I saw several teams head that way, and I think it stinks (and I complained about it at the finish). Hopping a fence because you can't find the marked crossing is one thing, but creating a whole new route option by crossing a marked fence where there is no marked crossing is just taking the piss.

Case in point, judging by the GPS track...

http://www.sterling-adventures.co.uk...marathon-2012/

[BillJ]

To act as devil's advocate...
It's common on mountain marathon maps to mark fences that are not to be crossed with a red line, like the fence between 3 and the road is.
If all fences are not to be crossed, why is one marked as such? It makes the implication that that fence is definitely not to be crossed, but other fences are not so definitely not to be crossed.

I agree with Creaky that the planner should ideally make sure there is no real advantage in a route that crosses an uncrossable boundary. The trouble with this area was that there were just so many fences.

[Mark Smith]

Hopping a wire fence on open access land is in itself not an issue. The usual common sense around causing damage and disturbing stock applies of course, but that applies everywhere and not just crossings. Crossing dry stone walls is a different matter, for the same reason. If on an MM, the landowner has expressed that he/she does not want a boundary crossed then mark it as such and use controls (the clue is in the title) to manage the flow of runners.

There were indeed, so so many fences. Some were huge and not meant to be crossed by anything. Others were small and were there to control sheep. We and dozens of others hopped one wire fence at 500m up on the fell side simply by stepping over it. my lanky legs meant i didnt even touch it. It was a common sense thing to do. The detour would have meant essentially ruling out the top half of the map on day 2! I can;t imagine for a moment that this was intended. Earlier, we ran an extra 600m to avoid having to climb a wall (not everyone did, alas). We didnt cheat, we just used our common sense. The problem that the rules about crossings and out of bounds is trying to solve is damage to fences and walls and intrusion onto areas where it would be inconvenient (to the landowner) or dangerous (to anyone, to stock) to be. That is the approach to take when deciding whether to cross. If in doubt, don't. But occasionally (once on 50kms of running for us) it is a no brainer.

[Mark G]

To act as devil's advocate...
It's common on mountain marathon maps to mark fences that are not to be crossed with a red line, like the fence between 3 and the road is.
If all fences are not to be crossed, why is one marked as such? It makes the implication that that fence is definitely not to be crossed, but other fences are not so definitely not to be crossed.

I agree with Creaky that the planner should ideally make sure there is no real advantage in a route that crosses an uncrossable boundary. The trouble with this area was that there were just so many fences.

Cost me a bit of time in the LDMT 3 years ago at Kentmere by detouring to cross the fence between Harter Fell and Kentmere Pike at marked crossing points (twice). To be fair the fence wasn't marked in red so I should probably have just gone the way I wanted but the presence of marked crossings made me feel obliged to use them.

[Charmian]

Message received this morning from D&W team:

*** FINALLY - AN IMPORTANT APPEAL - we were very upset to hear that the Head Keeper of the principal Estate on which the event was run was told by a male runner to F Off when asked to close a gate. We would appeal to that fell runner (yes, you know who you are) to make themselves known to us as soon as possible so that a full and proper apology can be made. As it stands it is unlikely that the land owners will give permission again for any more fell running events on their land - this not only impacts on us at Dark & White but also any other event organisers and the FRA of course.

Shocking and in a stroke has done so much more damage than striding over a low wire fence!! Perhaps all the responsible fell runners should apologise on behalf of this prat as he must surely be in a minority of one.

[Filthy Rich]

AN IMPORTANT APPEAL - we were very upset to hear that the Head Keeper of the principal Estate on which the event was run was told by a male runner to F Off when asked to close a gate.

Thats incredible, Are D&W emailing all competitors asking someone to own up? Seems best way to resolve it. Hopefuly they have calmed down now and see they need to admit it and apologise. Fact is they shouldn't need asking in first place but it does make you wonder if the runner was somehow provoked into such an extreme reaction.