New safety rules

[Khamsin]

As it was it was left to the police witness to be the voice of reason, and I for one am determined that we must not let the documents give any more scope to be used for whipping an RO by anyone.

Police Witness?

I thought you said you were not at the Inquest?

So is this more fantasy of the "I wasn't there but a friend of a mate met someone on the bus who heard that something or other might have been said, or not" kind?

[alwaysinjured]

Police Witness?

I thought you said you were not at the Inquest?

So is this more fantasy of the "I wasn't there but a friend of a mate met someone on the bus who heard that something or other might have been said, or not" kind?

See PM

[Witton Park]

I did know that WP, seems I'm better informed than you !

You may have known, but you have also shown you jump to conclusions without full knowledge of the facts

[MargC]

Like those Welsh classics The Yomp, Yetholm and Boars Head?
Honestly I didn't know. I can understand a Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish race being included, providing it has been permitted by the Home Nation but I'm amazed to find out that non FRA English races can be listed.

Richard,

Since you ask, the history of the inclusion of non-FRA permitted races in the Calendar is as follows:-

1. Until and including 2004 the FRA provided Permits and associated UKA insurance for all the races in the FRA Calendar including ones in Northern Ireland, Scotland & Wales.
2. Since 2005 UKA have not allowed the FRA to provide Permits for races outside England. Permits have to be provided by the relevant Home Country body affiliated to UKA.
3. The FRA committee decided to continue to include race details for events outside England in the Calendar, for information only (see Organisers' Page on the FRA website) since they were of interest to members.
4. Once it was decided to include events outside England which are not Permitted by the FRA it was also decided to accept other races in England that met the criteria of a fell race even though they are not Permitted/insured through the FRA. Such races currently include races organised by an orienteering club, a walkers' event that also has a race for runners, one or two races that obtain their licenses from RunBritain and a few events which obtain insurance from the WelshFRA (not affiliated to UKA). The WFRA is willing to provide insurance to members who organise races outside Wales.

At the beginning of the race section of the Calendar it explains that races Permitted/insured through the FRA are indicated by "(R)" after the name of the race. The FRA does not know the Permit/insurance status of other events and advises people to contact the organiser if they want to know.

Margaret Chippendale (FRA Fixtures Secretary 2003-2012)

[noel]

I see there is some more information of relevance to safety rules on the fellrunner homepage. http://fellrunner.org.uk/

I hope sensible steps can be taken to address these concerns without making it prohibitively difficult to organise races in future.

[Witton Park]

Richard,

Since you ask, the history of the inclusion of non-FRA permitted races in the Calendar is as follows:-

1. Until and including 2004 the FRA provided Permits and associated UKA insurance for all the races in the FRA Calendar including ones in Northern Ireland, Scotland & Wales.
2. Since 2005 UKA have not allowed the FRA to provide Permits for races outside England. Permits have to be provided by the relevant Home Country body affiliated to UKA.
3. The FRA committee decided to continue to include race details for events outside England in the Calendar, for information only (see Organisers' Page on the FRA website) since they were of interest to members.
4. Once it was decided to include events outside England which are not Permitted by the FRA it was also decided to accept other races in England that met the criteria of a fell race even though they are not Permitted/insured through the FRA. Such races currently include races organised by an orienteering club, a walkers' event that also has a race for runners, one or two races that obtain their licenses from RunBritain and a few events which obtain insurance from the WelshFRA (not affiliated to UKA). The WFRA is willing to provide insurance to members who organise races outside Wales.

At the beginning of the race section of the Calendar it explains that races Permitted/insured through the FRA are indicated by "(R)" after the name of the race. The FRA does not know the Permit/insurance status of other events and advises people to contact the organiser if they want to know.

Margaret Chippendale (FRA Fixtures Secretary 2003-2012)

I understand Margaret, but on point 4, especially with the safety review at hand I find it strange that th FRA will rubber stamp a race in which they have almost no say in the safety procedures.
Devolved responsibility of other associations in other nations is common practice, but you will not get UKA accepting a few long standing races with a tradition. They have to be permitted through the proper channels - full stop. They will not even show the results in the rankings unless they are permitted with UKA.

Richard Taylor (Quaver Protectors 1973-76 )

[MargC]

I understand Margaret, but on point 4, especially with the safety review at hand I find it strange that th FRA will rubber stamp a race in which they have almost no say in the safety procedures.
Devolved responsibility of other associations in other nations is common practice, but you will not get UKA accepting a few long standing races with a tradition. They have to be permitted through the proper channels - full stop. They will not even show the results in the rankings unless they are permitted with UKA.
Richard Taylor (Quaver Protectors 1973-76 )

Re point 4, it is always possible that at some future date the FRA may decide that non-FRA/NIMRA/Scottish Athletics/Welsh Athletics Permitted/insured races should not be included in the FRA Calendar. Since I am no longer a committee member I wouldn't know.

However, this would result in the FRA Calendar containing very few races in Wales. The vast majority of Welsh races (over 70) are insured by the non-UKA affiliated WFRA. Welsh Athletics (UKA affiliated) only provides Permits/insurance for a few mountain/fell races.

Moreover there are so few Welsh Athletics Permitted races that in a number of years the UKA British Championship has included a non-Permitted, WFRA insured Welsh race eg Ras y Aran and Moel Wnion in 2011and 2012 respectively.

[Lefty]

I see there is some more information of relevance to safety rules on the fellrunner homepage. http://fellrunner.org.uk/

I hope sensible steps can be taken to address these concerns without making it prohibitively difficult to organise races in future.

It would appear that the Fra have already addressed the issues raised in the Coroners findings in the latest draft.

[noel]

It would appear that the Fra have already addressed the issues raised in the Coroners findings in the latest draft.

I didn't read it like that on my first read through, specifically with respect to communication with marshalls etc. However, on re-reading the new safety guidelines, I agree.

[Norman Bates]

Seemingly despite the ( many ) words of wisdom by alwaysinjured that its ( almost ) business as usual for next years calendar.