post brexit

[shaunaneto]

As for your 62.5% statistic, you can just as easily say 65.5% did not vote to stay in the EU.

Yeh, but where does that leave the percentage of those that voted leave? ;-)

Anyway..... about politicians being the main threat to fulfilling the demands of the electorate that actually bothered to vote (or at least decide which way to vote).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7400266.html

The opposition will join forces with Tory Remain supporters and other parties to prevent Article 50 from being triggered if this trade access is not assured, the Labour leader told the Sunday Mirror.

[Mike T]

It is a bit like religion - most religious people believe that most other religious people - and the agnostics and the atheists - are wrong.

[Witton Park]

It is important to remember that 62.5% of people did not vote for Brexit, and that with natural wastage, within a very short period of time, remainers will outnumber leavers.

I think this is a huge assumption.

Back in 1975 the UK held a referendum to join the Common Market and it voted 67%/33% to join.

The people who voted back then in 1975 (more or less the over 60s now) who also voted now in 2016 have swung almost to the opposite as the research shows that more of the older generation voted to Leave.

Firstly that is quite a damning indictment on the EU from huge numbers of the population that were very much in favour 40 years ago.

Secondly, it demonstrates that peoples voting patterns and political opinions can change. Life experience is key to most peoples voting and what you may believe is the right path when you are a 20 year old Uni student, may well change when you are a 35 year old with a job, a mortgage, a partner, 2 kids and another 15 years of life experience behind you.

Finally, I think you also have to consider the lower turnout in the younger age groups which show it was only around 60% in the 18-24 year olds.
I'd suggest that mostly the university educated have voted and as this age group gets older, the 40% will become more engaged in the system and will also have an affect on the voting patterns of this group as they age.

Overall it's a very complex picture that can't be assessed so simply.

[Witton Park]

The problem for trade, is that business likes stability. Currency fluctuations and brexit cause uncertainty. Big companies can mitigate against this, to a point, but it eats away at confidence. Smaller companies often cannot.

I agree with this to a point.

In my business, which has been mostly in footwear manufacturing and importing which was my industry from 1983 to 2012 ish, there have been a few "shocks" which have had quite dramatic effects on the footwear industry in the UK.

We've seen a few currency shocks and mostly they are managed.

The ones that my industry finds it hardest to adjust to are the EU trade measures.

Anti-dumping duty up to 98% on some products from the Far East and some ADD has been in place at varying levels since 1998 to date.
Quota - works a bit like fishing quota - importers only allowed to bring in a certain number of some product groups.

Mostly these measures have been politically motivated and create huge issues for companies.

I once visited a factory in Fuzhou in around 2003. They had worked with the company (a German footwear company I worked for)since the early 90s. They met all the audit requirements and the Germans were making good progress in terms of helping the factory to continually improve.

In 1998 however, at 24 hours notice, the EU introduced 98% ADD and 7-8 years of a partnership was brought to an end.
The factory would have been finished, but for a large South American business that came in to work with it.

The German company moved it's orders to Vietnam which was largely unaffected by the trade maeasures in this product group.

So the measures didn't stop Far East shoes coming in to the EU, they really were pointless and only caused harm.

[Mike T]

There seems little doubt that people drift to the right politically as they age - personally I do not think this will happen with opinions about Brexit - but - again - I would say that wouldn't I!

I do like this quote from Wiki about Kurt Schumacher - I do realise that once you mention the Nazis you have lost the argument, but it is too good to leave out:

Kurt Schumacher was staunchly anti-Nazi. In a Reichstag speech on 23 February 1932, he excoriated Nazism as "a continuous appeal to the inner swine in human beings" and stated the movement had been uniquely successful in "ceaselessly mobilizing human stupidity."

I think the tabloids are successfully mobilising human stupidity - it applies even more to the USA than here.

[shaunaneto]

The EU trolls Brexit voters...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7405196.html

[RaceTheSweeper]

When the UK voted by 52% to leave the EU those that were on the "Leave" side never expected to win. Not because they did not believe in what they voted for and not because they did not understand what they were voting for but because - most people in the UK do not get listened to above the roar of the experts and those who have self appointed themselves as knowing best. Their voices are quietened throughout life. Giving us, the British people a chance to finally put their heads over that wall and take a peek at what could be possible was exciting and life giving. We looked at a Britain we could have and wanted. We don't know how the UK will look outside of the EU but the people who voted to leave did know what it looked like for them in it. No one on the "Remain" side gave them a glimpse of a life any different for them by staying within the EU. Saying we have now ruined the future for our children to work and live in the EU is a total non starter as for the vast majority of children in the UK this is not ever going to happen. They do not live in that World and probably never will. Some do not ever want to live in that World either. Saying that the voter's that voted to Leave are racist, uneducated, aged, xenophobic thugs is frankly unacceptable and it leads me to wonder who exactly are the "Bigots". "Who are these people that voted leave?" With the hate directed at those that voted leave is it any wonder that instead of standing up and saying "it was me" they are just hoping that their voices will be heard and not once again squashed by those that believe they know best. They dare not believe that their voices finally matter. There are still those that are trying their best to overturn the vote. Sadly they have the money to keep trying. The BBC is so bias that it is a total waste of time watching the main news hours as so much is cut out we do not get a balanced view. The Nissan assurance was great news but there are those that want to scupper it. If Nissan had pulled out of Sunderland the "remainers" would of been thrilled to say "see, what you have done! This is your fault". However, it's great news. They so did not want that! We have 650 members of Parliament. If you want to know both sides of the debate then watch "Parliament" or the news as it happens. There is a site that tells you what is being debated and when. Watch it or record it and hear both sides instead of getting your so called "facts, figures & clipped sound bites" from a news hour, bias media (both ways), social media snippets & Winnie the Pooh! On Monday Parliament sat and shouted at each other in a packed, standing room only house relating to the "ruling" on Friday. The clipped news did show some of the arguments but once again very bias. On Tuesday the debate was on "Grammar and all faith schools and the Governments plan to expand them. There were 23 MPs' in the house. 23 on an issue that will affect all of our children not just the select few. This was not show on the news at all that evening. I haven't taken anyone's sound-bites on this. I have observed, thought about, actively looked for full debates on issues and listened to them. For those that have your heads just looking over that wall, stand proud that no matter what the future holds you had your voice heard and no one will ever forget that lesson. Peace and tolerance to all

[shaunaneto]

TLDR

Can you summarise please?

[RaceTheSweeper]

TLDR

Can you summarise please?

That is the summary

[Wheeze]

Summary: Most of the time, the 'Chattering Classes', the media and the politicos believe what they are doing is righteous because the silent majority is just that....silent. But when the silent majority feels it has been pushed too far it will, given the opportunity, push back. The referendum provided that opportunity.
Leavers and remainers are groups containing bigots, idiots, rascists and thugs as well as considerate, thoughtful, peaceful and kind people because the groups are a cross section of the population, not drawn from skewed pools.
RaceThe Sweeper is right....peace and tolerance is the best way.