Brexit

[Muddy Retriever]

Well, if there was a clear instruction from the vote as to what the future relationship should look like...

There was a clear instruction, it is only remainers intent on overturning the largest democratic vote in British history who pretend otherwise. Vote Leave's message couldn't have been clearer, "take back control", leave the EU and its institutions. So anybody who then went on to vote leave would have fully expected this to happen. Unfortunately our representatives while mouthing platitudes about respecting the vote have done anything but.

[Witton Park]

That's a good point. But it still doesn't support your point about Maastricht.

And yes, perhaps we should be looking at quality of life. Certainly unemployment is bad for QoL, which comes back to Oracle's oft-repeated rant about the Euro.

Back to my point about why this isn't a problem for the US, many people have answered "because they have political union, one central bank etc". So perhaps greater EU powers would be the way to go. Discuss.

It's factual that Eurozone GDP Growth has been almost half that of the US since Maastricht.

The point about the US has been often made and I believe the EU would have to operate as a nation state.

Here in the UK we have disparities and one of the political arguments at the moment is about re-distribution around the UK, particularly with regards to infrastructure.

These disparities exist in all developed democracies so the EU is up against it. Can it persuade it's members that they should have more central bureaucracy? As most of it's members are new democracies, having been under communism or fascism for much of the 20th century, I can't see it. They haven't fought for freedom from dictators and the USSR to give that away.

[Stolly]

There was a clear instruction, it is only remainers intent on overturning the largest democratic vote in British history who pretend otherwise. Vote Leave's message couldn't have been clearer, "take back control", leave the EU and its institutions. So anybody who then went on to vote leave would have fully expected this to happen. Unfortunately our representatives while mouthing platitudes about respecting the vote have done anything but.

Nope, although you’re probably right about voting for the slogan “take back control”, to many brexiteers it wasn’t so much about leaving the EU and it’s institutions as it was about stopping immigration. Slogans though and simple goals, don’t come with a full explanation of quite what the implications might be....

There was that we’ll known interview just after the referendum with a chap from Sunderland who voted to leave because he didn’t want immigrants coming over from the EU.... and then went onto say that he wasn’t too bothered either way as he worked in Malta! 🤦

I have a client at work, also a leave voter (incredibly), who wanted to retire to their second home in France and sell up in the U.K. He’s now found to presumably his complete surprise 🤔 that he’s not sure whether his move to France can now work as he hoped 🤦🤦

And although Theresa May never misses an opportunity of mentioning our need to close down our borders to the EU, she hasn’t ever mentioned that with the same breath she’s closing down EU borders to us. So to a teenager say, the whole of Europe is (now for a very short window for U.K. teenagers) open to them for a job and a life. What a fantastic opportunity.... now being pissed away

[Muddy Retriever]

Nope, although you’re probably right about voting for the slogan “take back control”, to many brexiteers it wasn’t so much about leaving the EU and it’s institutions as it was about stopping immigration. Slogans though and simple goals, don’t come with a full explanation of quite what the implications might be....

According to a poll conducted by Lord Ashcroft just after the referendum:

Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.”

So only one third cited immigration as their main reason. And even then wanting to regain control over immigration and borders is not the same as wanting to stop immigration.

As for your claim of it all just being slogans, where were you at the time? We had months of the issues being debated ad nauseum.

[Muddy Retriever]

I have a client at work, also a leave voter (incredibly)

Is it incredible that you would take on leavers as clients or incredible that the guy is still your client given your views on leavers?

[Stolly]

....So only one third cited immigration as their main reason.

Perhaps because they were worried of being tarred with the same brush as the far right UKIP’ers? Come on a post referendum poll asking people’s opinions on why they voted is always going to skew people’s answers towards the seemingly most worthy option

[Stolly]

Is it incredible that you would take on leavers as clients or incredible that the guy is still your client given your views on leavers?

When your clients are mostly pretty wealthy with an average age of 65 plus, it obviously doesn’t happen that often.... 🙄

[Stolly]

...given your views on leavers?

Hey, I still give Richard (Witton Park) kudos on Strava 😊

[Muddy Retriever]

Perhaps because they were worried of being tarred with the same brush as the far right UKIP’ers? Come on a post referendum poll asking people’s opinions on why they voted is always going to skew people’s answers towards the seemingly most worthy option

Or just maybe the sovereignty issue was the most important. It was for me.

[shaunaneto]

There was a clear instruction, it is only remainers intent on overturning the largest democratic vote in British history who pretend otherwise. Vote Leave's message couldn't have been clearer, "take back control", leave the EU and its institutions. So anybody who then went on to vote leave would have fully expected this to happen. Unfortunately our representatives while mouthing platitudes about respecting the vote have done anything but.

Nope. All the vote instructed was to leave the EU. The nature of the relationship was left out.