Brexit

[CL]

Thanks for mansplaining why I voted remain CL. Who’d of thought you knew me so well ��

I was right though wasn't I Stoll? From what I remember you were shaking in your Walshes. Pretending to support Remaining on the grounds of culture when really it was fear.


Anyway I noticed you didn't answer my question.

[Witton Park]

Perhaps because they were worried of being tarred with the same brush as the far right UKIP’ers? Come on a post referendum poll asking people’s opinions on why they voted is always going to skew people’s answers towards the seemingly most worthy option

There has been a problem for 20 years that discussion about immigration led to accusations of racism if you questioned freedom of movement.

"to many brexiteers it wasn’t so much about leaving the EU and it’s institutions as it was about stopping immigration."

If you had put controlling immigration rather than stopping I would have tended to agree with you. Hardly any wanted to stop it, just a few nutters on the fringes.

Below is a part of my mock manifesto at the last general election. I think a policy along these lines would hardly be deemed racist, just exercising an element of control and ensuring that our support network cannot be taken for granted.

In a report by YouGov last year 63% think that immigration has been too high ie a fair chunk of Remain voters also see it as an issue.


Migration
 Retain freedom of movement for EU nationals and extend it to the Commonwealth.
 Look to remove visa requirements for other countries where reasonable.
 Streamline the residency process so that once people are established here and want to
remain, they can do so with a sensible and minimal level of bureaucracy. All should be able
to apply for residency with a few minor caveats mainly linked to convictions.
Residency should be an option after 3 years.
A fast track system should be brought in for those already here.
 Free access to NHS emergency services.
 Other medical and welfare provision should not be available and should be covered by
insurance until residency is confirmed.
 Employers who recruit employees from overseas must provide fully comprehensive health
insurance for their overseas staff who do not carry it.
 Work towards similar arrangements for UK citizens travelling and working abroad.
 Strengthen the border force and security.
We should be more open not less. I think most people are fairly relaxed about immigration and a
few simple measures such as set out above will alleviate general concerns that have been expressed
in recent years.
If employers genuinely cannot recruit from the UK, the imposition of health insurance will add
around 5% to the cost of employing a foreign national working full time on minimum wage and less
for higher earners, subject to age and fitness.
These policies will not put up barriers but will reduce some of the pull factors.

[anthonykay]

Migration
 Retain freedom of movement for EU nationals and extend it to the Commonwealth.
 Look to remove visa requirements for other countries where reasonable.
 Streamline the residency process so that once people are established here and want to
remain, they can do so with a sensible and minimal level of bureaucracy. All should be able
to apply for residency with a few minor caveats mainly linked to convictions.
Residency should be an option after 3 years.
A fast track system should be brought in for those already here.
 Free access to NHS emergency services.
 Other medical and welfare provision should not be available and should be covered by
insurance until residency is confirmed.
 Employers who recruit employees from overseas must provide fully comprehensive health
insurance for their overseas staff who do not carry it.
 Work towards similar arrangements for UK citizens travelling and working abroad.
 Strengthen the border force and security.
We should be more open not less. I think most people are fairly relaxed about immigration and a
few simple measures such as set out above will alleviate general concerns that have been expressed
in recent years.
If employers genuinely cannot recruit from the UK, the imposition of health insurance will add
around 5% to the cost of employing a foreign national working full time on minimum wage and less
for higher earners, subject to age and fitness.
These policies will not put up barriers but will reduce some of the pull factors.

I would vote for you on that manifesto, WP! In fact, during the referendum campaign I thought that one of the more sensible arguments put forward by Leavers was that potential immigrants from outside the EU shouldn't be disadvantaged over those from the EU. Although that wasn't what we were getting from the likes of Farage.

The problem is that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence of people thinking that leaving the EU means an end to immigration from anywhere. You will have a hard job educating these people.

[Oracle]

So the end game is now clear. For those who have yet to appreciate it ,EU have never negotiated in good faith, indeed they have refused to negotiate on the future relationship at all in clear violation of article 50 .It would have been straightforward to negotiate a win win amicable agreement, easily possible within the time because of current regulatory convergence, but the EU would rather inflict harm on both sides than deal.

It should now be apparent to all that the only "deal" they are willing to do is extortion of money with menaces, demanding hostile annexation of the sovereign rights of Northern ireland, offering nothing in return. Worse than nothing they demand permanent restrictions on our ability to trade elsewhwere. They would rather try to make us fail, than allow themselves to succeed.

Varadkar has openly stated we must give up northern ireland . Varadkar is intent on provoking civil war, because his only alternative to annexation, is building a wall he knows will inflame. Surely even the most rose tinted remainer does not want to belong to a club of zealots that inflicts such damage on its own member economies with the euro, and treats would be trading partners with such contempt. It always has treated UK with contempt. It is why we should leave.

No deal is the only sensible route. I would like to just blame the EU. I cannot. The blame lies equally with those who refuse no deal, and remainers who have sabotaged the process, ensuring the EU offer an even worse deal than no deal. Remainers fault.
I am sure the EU are most terrified of a "no deal" outcome because they know that when all realise how little damage it actually does (except to them as net exporter) the fear they use to force a bad deal will no longer deter others leaving.

[Stolly]

I was right though wasn't I Stoll? From what I remember you were shaking in your Walshes. Pretending to support Remaining on the grounds of culture when really it was fear.


Anyway I noticed you didn't answer my question.

Well you remember wrong CL, and more importantly I haven’t worn Walshes since something like 2009.

In fact what even is the point you are raising? At the time I definitely mentioned the reasons why the EU was formed in the first place (largely because nobody else had mentioned it) and yes I do think the EU is a great force for peace within Europe. It’s funding mechanism where the wealthier countries contribute more to help the less wealthy countries is a force for the good too. But, if you remember all of my other posts (as I’m sure you do), you’ll remember all of the other myriad of reasons why I want to remain in the EU as well. And it’s not “fear” and **** knows what you were on when you came up with that 🤔

[Fudge the Elf]

I come onto the forum to get info about fell running not all this shit about Brexit. (no apologies if someone has already said this).

[Oracle]

I come onto the forum to get info about fell running not all this shit about Brexit. (no apologies if someone has already said this).

Indeed most of the other forums here are about fellrunning and entitled as such, but this is ' general chat Brexit' so why the surprise or necessity to read it? Avoiding the finance section of a newspaper is eminently Sensible for those disinterested in finance!

[Wheeze]

Of course you did Fudge....and good on you for doing it. This is but a little corner of the forum...clearly marked 'Down The Pub' for those who care to read it. Here, fell runners can enjoy idle banter, passionate discussion and, hopefully some useful insights from fellow fell runners once the heat of battle and the pain of uphill toil has been endured!
You will, of course, be glad to know that the other 99% of the forum is 100% pure information about all things fell running!
Now, do you wanna join this debate or not? No pressure!

[Jez Hellewell]

Of course you did Fudge....and good on you for doing it. This is but a little corner of the forum...clearly marked 'Down The Pub' for those who care to read it. Here, fell runners can enjoy idle banter, passionate discussion and, hopefully some useful insights from fellow fell runners once the heat of battle and the pain of uphill toil has been endured!
You will, of course, be glad to know that the other 99% of the forum is 100% pure information about all things fell running!
Now, do you wanna join this debate or not? No pressure!

Will he remain? The pressure is killing me.

[millipede]

I come onto the forum to get info about fell running not all this shit about Brexit. (no apologies if someone has already said this).

Well said. This is the most boring thread ever on this forum( and that is saying something) and ruins it. It takes up far too much space.