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Thread: Brexit

  1. #831
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    There is something wrong in politics and you only need to look at the current situation and our views on the forum to see that somehow we need a reset.

    We have what you might call right of centre Thatcherites, and I'm along those lines myself, arguing against the CBI, big business and the EU.

    Meanwhile you have the Labour Party, centre left social democrats and even self-dubbed democratic socialists like Paul Mason who are pro EU, claiming alignment with the CBI and big business on the issue of Brexit.

    That's cock-eyed.

    I'm for free market and healthy competition, but big business has the power to influence in it's best interests and SME's have little or no influence, just their vote at the ballot box like all of us.

    You won't see an employer of 50 people running a small engineering firm in East Lancs at the DEXU committee, but you'll see the Head of CBI or the CEOI of Siemens UK.

    https://www.dw.com/en/how-non-eu-act...els/a-46182626
    There are plenty of articles written about the power of lobbying and this is one of them.

    I think big business has been able to manipulate the agenda too much. It needs pairing back. It has the policy makers in it's pocket and between them they are stitching up the individual.

    When I started work, my wife and I worked in a shoe factory in Bacup.

    It was Monday to Friday, early finish on Friday, time and a quarter up to double time for all overtime. 4 weeks paid holiday + 8 banks.

    We had what my Dad called GPs back then - guaranteed payments for short-time work that worked on a quarterly basis.
    They helped avoid the economic cliff-edge of not working for a week or two.

    In 1986-88 my wife as a post machinist sewing zips and elastics in slippers could earn in excess of £300 pw for 40 hours and with overtime sometimes over £400.

    In 2019 she works as a sewing machinist for part of John Lewis Group and earns around the same. £300 pw. And of course £300 now goes about as far as £100 back in the late 80s.

    So workers rights, minimum wage, EU protections...…

    It's largely a myth.

    Big business has us stitched up to the extent they employ particularly many low-skilled people on 20-30 hour contracts now and they need their wages topping up by the state, nursery provision paid for by the state, help to buy for first time buyers.....

    The workforce are just a commodity, a resource. It needs to change.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  2. #832
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    I have no idea where the term 'deal' came from. Article 50 requires the enactment of a Withdrawal Agreement not a trade deal. Sometimes, you have to agree to disagree, part company and then sort out the issues later. All this No Deal bull is as bad as the stupid red bus!

  3. #833
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    Trade deal is reasonably one core aspect of framework referenced in the article 50: "setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union."

    EU have clearly ignored this completely with their negotiating order (May should never have agreed ,Davis was rightly against it) , preferring demanding money with menaces and otherwise annexation of northern ireland. Or as varoufakis put it "stating you agree to all our demands, only then we will consider some of yours".

    The ideologues of brussels with outrageous salaries, guaranteed pensions and massive unnaccounted expenses do not care a jot how much pain they inflict even on their own side, so have refused to negotiate at all. The pain will not affect them. So for that reason I agree. Pull out, then let pragmatism beat ideology, which in many regards is already in place


    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeze View Post
    I have no idea where the term 'deal' came from. Article 50 requires the enactment of a Withdrawal Agreement not a trade deal. Sometimes, you have to agree to disagree, part company and then sort out the issues later. All this No Deal bull is as bad as the stupid red bus!
    Last edited by Oracle; 12-03-2019 at 11:36 AM.

  4. #834
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    The no's have it.

    Look out, someone has let Peter "mortgage" Mandleson out of his box!
    Last edited by Llani Boy; 12-03-2019 at 08:36 PM.
    Visibility good except in Hill Fog

  5. #835
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    Only just.
    149 I believe.
    Maybe we should have another vote?

  6. #836
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    The vote that matters is tomorrow.

  7. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llani Boy View Post
    The no's have it.

    Look out, someone has let Peter "mortgage" Mandleson out of his box!
    Hurrah

  8. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    Only just.
    149 I believe.
    Maybe we should have another vote?
    Until the last vote is honoured , what is the point of another?
    To agree the EU are unreasonable so have failed to negotiate? We already know it! Despite Labour branding it " Mays deal" , this is the EU non deal. In which case the argument to leave is even more a slamdunk.

    The only other possibility is rescind A50 then use the veto to paralyse Brussels until it deals. But our MPs are mostly too chicken to play hardball, or too dishonest like Corbyn. Bring back Maggie.

  9. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Bring back Maggie.
    Brilliant idea the smell would get loads of those treacherous remoaners out of the house.

  10. #840
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    Never mind Thatcher bring back mining.

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