Kit conundrum

[bigfella]

But the RO can't waive the kit requirements for AL, AM, BL races however he can stipulate any extra requirements that he sees fit.

[mountainsloth]

Personally think it's a bit of a non-issue.

With all respect to other forms of racing, it's not like a parkrun or local charity 10km where any old joker could potentially turn up.

To get yourself involved in a fell-race generally takes a little resourcefulness, dedication, and arguably fitness... seems to me that most people who make the effort to race on the fells, seem to make the effort to clarify the kit requirements... (the endless kit/shoe/gps debates on facebook appear to be testament to this!)

I've only been racing on the fells for less than 4 years, so a relative newcomer, and have never had an issue... How many people have you actually seen turned away for not realising they might need their kit but they left it at home? (as opposed to people who just rock up to Peris Horseshoe without any experience nor kit whatsoever when it's pissing down and blowing a gale, which i have seen!)

Put it this way, there were a few squeaky bums yesterday in the starting pen when the starter called out three random race numbers...

[PeteS]

And that's ok to make the assumption - you're then covered whatever - but it's not right is it? The rules aren't regardless of category.

A RO always can exercise the right to stipulate extra kit depending on the conditions on the day (and this could be a relatively last minute decision.) So regardless of what the rules say, I would always turn up with full mandatory kit anyway.

[mountainsloth]

Sorry, this was a reply to Bigfella
Which is why I said, the better wording would be - FRA full kit is mandatory for all races, but can be waived at the RO's discretion for certain categories, i.e. anything other than AL/AM/BL. That way, every one turns up with everything and the RO can even make a decision five minutes before the start. The other option is, like yesterday, the RO making no mention of kit requirements until the registration tent, which for some people was a twenty minute+ walk from their car.

[Travs]

1: Kit requirements for FRA fell races

Long A, Medium A, Long B
FRA Mandatory Minimum Kit plus any additional kit specified by Race Organiser
FRA Mandatory Minimum Kit is listed below. Additional Race Organiser requirements may include, for example, a thermal layer, a bivi bag, a torch, water etc.

Short A, Medium B, Short B, all category C races
As Race Organiser specifies
Best practice is to carry FRA Mandatory Minimum Kit, but specific requirements are at the Race Organiser’s discretion.


The above taken from FRA rules/runner's requirements...

Seems fairly straight-forward to me

[mountainsloth]

1: Kit requirements for FRA fell races

Long A, Medium A, Long B
FRA Mandatory Minimum Kit plus any additional kit specified by Race Organiser
FRA Mandatory Minimum Kit is listed below. Additional Race Organiser requirements may include, for example, a thermal layer, a bivi bag, a torch, water etc. This is all self explanatory

Short A, Medium B, Short B, all category C races
As Race Organiser specifies When and where? On their website? On Facebook? Two minutes before the race starts on a piece of A4 paper?
Best practice So not mandatoryis to carry FRA Mandatory Minimum Kit, but specific requirements are at the Race Organiser’s discretion.So it could become mandatory at some unspecified point


The above taken from FRA rules/runner's requirements...

Seems fairly straight-forward to me

That's what I was working from.

[Graham Breeze]

It just seems a little vague and ambiguous to me. Surely if this is the way we're thinking, the better wording would be that kit was mandatory for all races, but could be waived at the ROs discretion (for applicable categories)? Like I say, I do take kit, and sometimes carry it even if not enforced. However, there must be newcomers who would interpret this as I have, and just roll up in their kit?

I do not agree with your "better wording". Philosophically it is not the way fellrunning works.

Races are organised by race organisers ie not the FRA. Fell races existed before the FRA did.

RO are the beating heart of the sport, the FRA is the governing body and the two have different but complementary roles.

For a RO to get their race registered and INSURED they have to agree to comply with FRA rules which include, inter alia, mandatory kit for some categories of races.

Many FRA rules/procedures can be traced back to Coroners' comments after a fell race death which the FRA, as a governing body, had to respond to .

The FRA has a view on "best practice" which it does not seek to impose unnecessarily on RO.

A RO at their race can demand anything they want above FRA mandatory requirements. I recall many years ago when Dark Peak insisted that everybody in the Edale Skyline carry a mobile, when not everybody owned one, and the FRA accepted "their race - their rules". Aka "even if you think the RO is wrong he will still be enough right to refuse you entry to his race".

[Travs]

What if the race organiser is not on facebook? what if the organiser specifies 'no kit required' the day before the race, and then in the final couple of hours before the start, it absolutely hoofs it down and the temperature drops? 'Race Organiser specifies' has always seemed to me to be what he tells you when you arrive at the race. If I've ever been in any doubt i just ask at registration, although it's usually pretty clearly indicated.


The rules above give an indication that there can be potential for 'mandatory kit' to be carried. And to be honest, my view is if you read that and then decide that there is no chance of needing kit so you'll leave it at home, then you're making a massive mis-interpretation.

edit: Graham Breeze has put it a lot more eloquently than i can manage...

[mountainsloth]

I do not agree with your "better wording". Philosophically it is not the way fellrunning works.

Races are organised by race organisers ie not the FRA. Fell races existed before the FRA did.

RO are the beating heart of the sport, the FRA is the governing body and the two have different but complementary roles.

For a RO to get their race registered and INSURED they have to agree to comply with FRA rules which include, inter alia, mandatory kit for some categories of races.

Many FRA rules/procedures can be traced back to Coroners' comments after a fell race death which the FRA, as a governing body, had to respond to .

The FRA has a view on "best practice" which it does not seek to impose unnecessarily on RO.

A RO at their race can demand anything they want above FRA mandatory requirements. I recall many years ago when Dark Peak insisted that everybody in the Edale Skyline carry a mobile, when not everybody owned one, and the FRA accepted "their race - their rules". Aka "even if you think the RO is wrong he will still be enough right to refuse you entry to his race".

I understand this, and have no problem with the authority of ROs. Let me be clear - they do a fantastic, difficult job. If they said you had to run in a green mankini, I'd be off to the Poundshop forthwith. Furthermore, I don't want to come across as being difficult here, because I'm proud to be a member of the fellrunning community.
That said, it's this interaction between the FRA and ROs which seems sketchy. Hope said full kit was required because its FRA rules. It clearly isn't. However, this wasn't a problem because it was advertised in advance. Wolf's Pit made no mention of kit requirement until the starting paddock, again seeming to say 'hey, it's the FRA, not us'.
This is why I say, surely it would remove the confusion if kit was mandatory, but with the potential to be waived.
As per your mobile phone example - I'm sure that was notified well in advance. What if it had been declared at the start line?

[Llani Boy]

Probably everyone on this Forum, including myself, turns up at a Fell Race with enough kit to cover all eventualities. However I am with Mountainsloth on this one. I have a flyer for Wolfs Pit beside me, which was stuck under my wiper a few weeks ago whilst parked in Hathersage.
It has not got any mention of the FRA or any kit requirements on it.
Looking at the results from yesterdays race 394 runners finished. Were they all FRA members? I doubt it. This and similar flyers can be found in shops, cafes, pubs and various other places and as most Peak District races are only 45mins from Sheffield and Manchester the potential for unprepared and inexperienced runners to enter, or try to, on the day is high.
I think a little clarity would not go amiss which I think was the thrust of Mountainsloth's post and it would probably stop any argy bargy at registration.