Brexit

[Oracle]

I entirely agree. I do not know a brexiteer who ever thought Brussels would negotiate in good faith. Brussels intransigence is why Many of us wanted to leave.

But I think May thought too highly of them. She is a remainer who hoped to show Brussels in a good light, but ended up seeing the reality. She accepted the negotiating order. If she had expected talks to fail, why then agree only to talk about things Brussels demanded, not what is important to the UK?
Why overrule davies on the negotiating order? It does not make sense..
I think May is to blame for much of the impasse. We should have walked away 2 years ago when they refused to talk trade.

A scenario for the 'experts' to discuss.

From day 1, May knew there was no point in negotiating with the EU, who were intent on frustrating the process. Hence preparations for no deal with the EU started in earnest over 2 years ago, and are significantly advanced. Unfortunately too many MPs failed to understand the situation, had their own agendas, and have attempted to prevent no deal. Whether their votes are legally binding is unclear.

Maybe no deal always was meant to be the outcome.

[Oracle]

Davis has experience both of Brussels and running international business that May does not. He also had reported on Irish border technology before the brexit vote decided our path. So he is the right man for the job.

He would have made a far better fist of it. Not least because he has friends both sides of the house, in such as Tom Watson. May is neither a good tactician, nor a good actor. Worst of all, she is an administrator, not a leader. She has no vision and so cannot motivate others to follow it. She is trying to navigate a path between two opposite visions, which is impossible, it satisfies neither nor her democratic mandate..

Davis???

If you want to be sure of reaching your destination then make sure you are in the driving seat.

If you just want to be a back seat comedian - join Equity.

[Graham Breeze]

Davis has experience both of Brussels and running international business that May does not. He also had reported on Irish border technology before the brexit vote decided our path. So he is the right man for the job.

He would have made a far better fist of it. Not least because he has friends both sides of the house, in such as Tom Watson. May is neither a good tactician, nor a good actor. Worst of all, she is an administrator, not a leader. She has no vision and so cannot motivate others to follow it. She is trying to navigate a path between two opposite visions, which is impossible, it satisfies neither nor her democratic mandate..

Of course May is neither inspirational nor visionary...but May - with all her faults - has ended up in charge because others like Davis chose not to be.

May may have failed but she has done her best according to her (limited) abilities but others like Davis...perhaps he is even now writing his book "What I Would Have Achieved If Only I Had Been In Charge"

[JohnK]

I don`t think it would have mattered a jot who was in charge odds of 1 against 27 puts the challenger onto a loser from the start, especially when all their supposed supporters are on a different agenda and purely looking after there own interests and not the country's.

It is my grand children's and the younger generations that will now have to try and rebuild a country that has been destroyed.

The current system of rule is in a shambles and will need rebuilding over decades.

[Muddy Retriever]

A scenario for the 'experts' to discuss.

From day 1, May knew there was no point in negotiating with the EU, who were intent on frustrating the process. Hence preparations for no deal with the EU started in earnest over 2 years ago, and are significantly advanced. Unfortunately too many MPs failed to understand the situation, had their own agendas, and have attempted to prevent no deal. Whether their votes are legally binding is unclear.

Maybe no deal always was meant to be the outcome.

I think the General Election fiasco has played a bit part in why we are where we are today. May correctly identified that the majority she inherited from Cameron was not big enough given that there would be a large body of MP's who would try and frustrate Brexit and undermine the Government's position. On the face of it, it made absolute sense to try and get a bigger majority given the opinion polls were showing 20+ percentage point leads. But what followed was probably the worst general election campaign ever with May exposed as a wooden performer. It resulted in her losing even the small majority she previously had.

After that May was severely weakened and the Government was undermined at every turn with remainers like Blair and Clegg rushing to Brussels urging the EU to offer harsh terms so that we might decide to have a second referendum and overturn the first one. Even part of the Cabinet joined in the act, repeatedly saying how bad no-deal would be. Phillip Hammond even refused to release the money required by Government departments to prepare for it. It was reported at the time of the General Election that May was about to sack Hammond. Now she was too weak to do so. The result has been a shambles. The EU (rightly) concluded that we wouldn't leave without a deal and had therefore no incentive to offer a good one. Rather they could offer a bad deal in the hope the decision could be reversed or at the very worst let us leave but on vassal nation terms.

[Witton Park]

Of course May is neither inspirational nor visionary...but May - with all her faults - has ended up in charge because others like Davis chose not to be.

May may have failed but she has done her best according to her (limited) abilities but others like Davis...perhaps he is even now writing his book "What I Would Have Achieved If Only I Had Been In Charge"

I think you need to wind back a little.

We had a Remain PM who said he would stay on, invoke article 50 immediately and see the process through if the UK voted to leave.

He bottled it and ran off.

We then had a Remain majority Tory set of MPs who gradually whittled away (with help from back-stabbing Gove) at the Leaver candidates until we were left with May or Leadsom.

I like Leadsom. A thorough nice lady, but not in my opinion a satisfactory leadership candidate, like May.

Leadsom received the vote of 84 MPs, less than 25%.

She was then lent on not to take it to the membership.

Had Davis entered the contest he might have done better, but I still think the MPs would have gone for May in such a number that the person coming 2nd would have felt the need to step aside.

[Oracle]

As far as I am aware, Davis put his name in the hat at the last leader election. He did not get into the final two. I don't recollect him campaigning for it.

As for "bottling it". I cannot agree with Witton. May sidelined him, refused to listen to his advice, even on the most fundamental issue of negotiating order. What was the point in his remaining as a nominal brexit secretary with no responsibility or authority?

Of course May is neither inspirational nor visionary...but May - with all her faults - has ended up in charge because others like Davis chose not to be.

May may have failed but she has done her best according to her (limited) abilities but others like Davis...perhaps he is even now writing his book "What I Would Have Achieved If Only I Had Been In Charge"

[Graham Breeze]

There is a lovely quote today in the DT about the loathsome Mike Ashley (Sports Direct) who the Board of Debenhams have prevented from buying for a song and becoming Chief Executive but instead have opted for a pre-packaged deal with administrators:

There were fears (it) would give him the key to the castle and he would then change the locks.

I'm sure this mistrust could equally be applied to a player or few in the Brexit saga.

[Oracle]

Nothing to do with it. Other than pointing out the impossibility of an organisation run by a committee of 27 which could be why it is a rampant failure, and also why it cannot negotiate in less than 7 years. The only reason they held firm was they were not asked to concede anything.

Migration and the EU budget show how dysfunctional the EU is. In addition the catastrope caused by the euro, show that the ideologues are happy to cause harm.

All britain had to do was hold fast and be willing to say no. Just like Maggie did, the woman who was not for turning. The remainers never accepted it, deliberately wrecked it, made negotiation impossible so where we are now is their doing. A bright future awaited.

The EU will not exist for your grandchildren. Not in this form. It is fatally flawed.Why do remainers want to be shackled to the titanic as it sinks?

I don`t think it would have mattered a jot who was in charge odds of 1 against 27 puts the challenger onto a loser from the start, especially when all their supposed supporters are on a different agenda and purely looking after there own interests and not the country's.

It is my grand children's and the younger generations that will now have to try and rebuild a country that has been destroyed.

The current system of rule is in a shambles and will need rebuilding over decades.

[DrPatrickBarry]

As far as I am aware, Davis put his name in the hat

I thought you were right, but no.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_C...rship_election