Brexit

[Oracle]

Which bit of the EU's "we will not re-negotiate" do Westminster MP's pretend to not understand?

Indeed. One condition of the extension is that neither withdrawal agreement nor trade can be negotiated. It isnt just our MPs who are barking stupid. What do they expect to change in that time? But then we always knew that for Juncker, Barnier, Verhofstadt and others it was never about successful outcome.

Like my grandchildren they think they can line up and say "dont want that" "dont like that" to everything they are offered regardless of the reality of a world of hard choices. "then nothing it is" brings my grandchildren back to their senses. Our MPs think like king canute they can turn back an inevitable tide of no deal unless they accept one.

[Oracle]

My comment was of course facetious.

Certainly some of Greek origin are well known in FRA circles paint a grim picture of the greece the tourists do not see. There are far too many in serious poverty in many of these countries. Not the rowntree foundation kind of poverty that has a smartphone. According to rowntree in a land of billionaires, millionaires live in poverty. Which hinders appreciation of the problem not helps it.

I am amazed that corbynistas are able to hold their noses at the consequence of real austerity, not the illusory UK kind which makes a budget meet. At least one Corbyn supporter (was) prominent poster here, recently disappeared, seems to have mixed morals since he opposes profoundly UK so called austerity, but supports the real austerity alive by decree in the EU he also supports. You cannot have it both ways. I will say it again, I do not think remainers analyze the thing they seem to love. But then corbynistas are never analytical people. If they were they could not be Corbynistas.

These EU countries are without possible hope. The brain drain and enforced budget balance ensures renewal is not possible. It is worse than even Ambrose Evans thinks. Italy growth is not sufficient even to outstrip their debt mountain increases, so in real terms the debt increases for ever. And it isnt global shock that will take it down.

Simply a matter of Time will take italy down, populist elections or world events that spook their lenders will just make it faster when bond rates go into orbit. Debt is not static. It has to be refinanced or rolled over. And italy will be unable to roll over the 2 trillion debt at much higher rates without total destruction of all public services. People are just collateral damage in a greater good as far as fatarse juncker is concerned. The euro is the problem.

The gush of money escaping italy in anticipation is already frightening for those who know where to see the evidence of it. The italian banks are sat on a doom loop of a mounting heap of worthless italian government bonds and a massive percentage of non performing loans. Yet EU rules allow them as collateral so deem the banks fit to trade, so many banks will go down with it because of EU stupidity on rules.

So for anyone who thinks EU rules are good, consider this.
For as long as we are part of EU we are obliged to consider Italian banks are solvent because of the "gold plated" italian government debt. Ask greece how well that played out!
But get this.....The moment we leave the EU we are obliged to take a risk based view of bank collateral, which will inevitably declare italian government bonds as junk and so italian banks insolvent and any banks that hold italian debt can no longer treat it as collateral. Like most of our banks directly or indirectly So our own banks become undercapitalised the same day, now we are not allowed to use EU crazy banking assumptions.

But Oracle, I went to Greece last year to do my bit for their economy prompted by all you had posted about their dire state of affairs!

Actually it is finally having Campagnolo equipment, after SRAM and Shimano, that has made me so happy. When I was a boy on my humble Carlton I used to gaze at a Campag.10 speed, just dreaming...

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in today's DT says "Italy is one small shock away from a sovereign default of global scale" so I think buying a Bianchi is almost a humanitarian act of kindness.

Hurt of Ilkley.

[anthonykay]

The BBC seems to have abandoned any pretence at impartiality on Brexit as demonstrated by its repeated remain heavy guest composition on Question Time and other programmes. It was good to see Charles Moore call it out on last week's Question Time when yet again he was the only panellist who had voted to leave.

That's interesting. I don't watch Question Time, but I do quite often listen to Any Questions on Radio 4. There they always seem to be very careful to have 2 Remainers and 2 Leavers, or one of each together with two people who haven't expressed strong views.

My impression of the BBC is that they are fairly balanced overall; whereas I also watch Channel 4 News and the bias there is pretty obvious.

[Graham Breeze]

That's interesting. I don't watch Question Time, but I do quite often listen to Any Questions on Radio 4. There they always seem to be very careful to have 2 Remainers and 2 Leavers, or one of each together with two people who haven't expressed strong views.

My impression of the BBC is that they are fairly balanced overall; whereas I also watch Channel 4 News and the bias there is pretty obvious.

The Channel 4 News is so blatant as to be unwatchable (for me), which is a pity because it has the time to consider matters at length and isn't so "showbizzy", but then it doesn't pretend to be balanced - as with the D (for disgraceful) Telegraph.

[Derby Tup]

Graham I’m finding your references to the DT most baffling; partly because I keep thinking of the Derbyshire Times

[Graham Breeze]

I am chastised - and enlightened. The Derbyshire Times indeed.

[Derby Tup]

DT as opposed to DET - Derby Evening Telegraph

[Graham Breeze]

Enough. Pray enough Sir!

[Witton Park]

Serious question? Is there an unbiased TV news station or newspaper where you can get the view (calmly and sensibly) from? Are they all bias? Taking the position of Leave or Remain? I really would like to start buying that newspaper and watching that TV news station.

I will just say though that on this tread I usually do get both sides and most manage to get their point across without insulting either "Leave voters" or "Remain voters".

This Week on BBC1 on Thursday night with Andrew Neill.

Pundits are usually Eurosceptic Portillo and EU loving Alan Johnson. Neither are tied to the parties so they don't have to toe the party line, so you get a more real world opinion, with a clear understanding of politics.

The format works well also.

Ironically the most balanced (and with growing ratings) political programme is being axed by the BBC this Summer.
Only about 10 programmes left.

[noel]

As long as the BBC is being criticised by both sides of the debate for being biased, it’s doing something right.