Brexit

[Wheeze]

Where's that Hobson bloke? Perhaps he'd like to take his choice back!

[DangerMouse]

Thanks Wheeze, I guess you are right, I am no stranger to the wranglings of online discussion and how easily things can go awry! Perhaps this is why I have been so careful and I think to some degree quite humble in my questioning and positioning. This is not easy. will slowly make my way through and hopefully learn a thing or two

Philosophically I can see the arguments for both leave and remain, and if I think about it, the inevitable outcome of this was always going to be divisive. Not just divisive in the short term, but for decades to come. I think you are right Noel in that there will be resentment either way. It makes me think of the most classic of power and control idioms "Divide and conquer" that is: To gain or maintain power by generating tension among others, epecially those less powerful, so that they cannot unite in opposition.

Anyone should be able to see, if they take a moment to truly reflect, that our government as it stands is an outdated and largely dysfunctional system (for us, the people) that is in it's death throes. It's certainly not democracy - that is rule by the people or their elected representatives. It's more of a corpocracy, by which I mean that the government is really the public relations department for large corporates and their objectives are based not on what the people need, but rather on the basis of passing legislature to facilitate the generation of maximum profits for the large corporates and transfer of our public assets into private ownership.

What better way to maintain the status quo, the rich being in power and the common people being subjugated and cowed, than to shift the focus from a dying political system to a complete division of thought in the populace.

Instead of everyone looking at government and thinking what the hell are we doing here, this is broken, we need a new system - which is what I actually believe we need, we're all arguing amongst ourselves over how our government should resolve this absurd situation. If it wasn't so serious it would be hilarious.

I would like to see the abolition of government parties and the introduction of a system that was truly altruistic where publicly appointed representatives are assigned to each of the governance domains according to their ability, skills, knowledge etc. The government should be made up of the greatest minds in society who work together to make things better for everyone, not just the large corporates. So, for example, the education secretary should be someone who cares deeply about making the education system as good as it possibly can be, regardless of political persuasion. The question should be, how can we educate our young people to the highest standards. That's it. Not which political party is in power. It just seems like distraction tactics.

To this end it makes little difference if we leave or not, I guess we just have to go with it now as the decision has already been made, but I do look forward to the day when we can collectively overcome these side show distractions and get to the real issues at hand like healthcare, energy, pollution, education, transport, etc. all of which I see being handed over without so much as a 'by your leave' to private concerns.

Example: We do not have a public transport system any more, we have a private transport system who's primary objective is shareholder profits, not about getting people inexpensively and safely from a to b. I personally think the public transport system should be free at point of use and paid for by personal transport taxation (I might've to hide under a chair for this one! ).

The same thing is happening to all our other public services, energy has already gone private and look at that (~25,000 older people die needlessly every year because they cant keep warm - one person over 65 every 7 minutes - see reports from AgeUK) - this is nothing short of premeditated mass murder by the energy companies yet they remain unprosecuted and free to make massive profits based on death and suffering.

The healthcare system is next in line and I am terrified that it is going to end up exactly the same as it is in the US where if you don't have money/insurance you will be left to suffer on the pavement outside the hospital.

This in itself should be a huge wakeup call - this is what should be compelling us to forget our differences unite and fight against the outright theft and sale of our public property.

Sorry, another good wibble there... again just thoughts!!

[Stagger]

Staggers tip.

On the day we leave invest in a FTSE tracker.

The market will dip big time and soon after recovering to well above where it was.

Easy money 🇬🇧💷🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧

[Mike T]

But the passage of time always means you know more now than you did in the past. It would have been the same had we voted to stay in the EU. I rather doubt that you'd now be asking for another referendum if Remain had won.

What do we actually know? For my part I know that the EU wants to punish us for having the temerity to leave by imposing harsh terms - Barnier has said as much. We also know that Remain politicians here have been encouraging them to do so and doing all they can to frustrate the referendum result. Neither of these is a reason to have another vote as far as I can see.

In reality we will only know if Brexit was the right decision after it actually happens. So why not give it chance and if in say five or so years there is a groundswell of opinion wanting a referendum to rejoin have one then?

Yes, knowledge usually increases with time, and often this means we change our minds there and then - otherwise we would not change our minds in time, and the gap between knowledge and reaction would be too long to be useful.
The main new knowledge re Brexit is how little we know - we are starting to know what we don't know.
So some want to re ask the question now, some don't - who is in the majority? We just ask.

[MattPo]

Bollox to Brexit!

[Witton Park]

That's interesting - thanks Witton Park!!

To be honest, the worst part of all this is the exchange rate, the £ has fallen so much agains the dollar and euro that I might be screwed anyway. Fortunately I have quite a lot of parts in stock, so I am not down and out yet.

Tge main problem is parts scarcity, I don't really have much choice but to source them from 'wherever I can get them'. One project often involves orders from 4 or 5 companies around the world - this stuff is not easy to just do. It took me a good few years to feel confident enough in my building skills to be able to sell the things, I will feel sad if I have to give it up because it is no longer financially viable.

If import duty and taxation is going to disappear from imports from the US and elsewhere in the world then that would certainly offset the loss in value of the £. Have a look over the last 10 years on XE - the £$ has lost 30cents since Brexit. That's a massive generalisation, but it's about right and for people like me this is a huge problem.

When will Brexit pay me back for all the losses over the last two years? And how? (this is a rhetorical question I know no one can really answer this!)

If you are importing stuff, processing and re-exporting, you are neutralising the effects of the currency movements.
eg. Your parts might go up 10%, but your selling price to the overseas buyer has reduced 10%.
What you need to consider is that now the £ has dropped, you can perhaps get a higher £ price for what you sell but to someone in the US that could still be a lower $ price.

I've just increased a small part I sell in volume from £4.25 to £4.38, but to my regulars overseas, that part is still cheaper than it was 3 years ago.

[Witton Park]

Muddy Retriever, yes of course you're right; I guess it's a question of good faith, that is, will our government actually do that?

and this is quite a key point. We can get rid oft hem and elect another one if they don't.

[Wheeze]

That's key WP. Some time ago I recounted the story of the recalcitrant commissioner who could have destroyed MRI. We couldn't vote him out but after 10 years of international lobbying an interim solution was reached. The cost and effort of the international community totally outweighed any supposed benefits he was claiming.

[DangerMouse]

Thanks Witton Park.

Yes, I can see how that would work, I don't sell to anyone in the US.

Also I am not VAT registered, which does make a difference, as I mentioned previously, it's not really a proper business. I do it because I enjoy it very much and it makes me feel good that I am making musical instruments for people to make music with, it's not really a profit driven venture. It does pay my way here and there, when I am not working on web projects, just about!

Hopefully, as you say the prices will all kinda work out okay, guess we will just have to wait and see hey

[Witton Park]

Thanks Witton Park.

Yes, I can see how that would work, I don't sell to anyone in the US.

Also I am not VAT registered, which does make a difference, as I mentioned previously, it's not really a proper business. I do it because I enjoy it very much and it makes me feel good that I am making musical instruments for people to make music with, it's not really a profit driven venture. It does pay my way here and there, when I am not working on web projects, just about!

Hopefully, as you say the prices will all kinda work out okay, guess we will just have to wait and see hey

If you aren't VAT registered I think that is your biggest issue. I think you need to look in to it urgently along with registering for an EORI or you might not be able to import or export.