Quote Originally Posted by Stolly View Post
The first past the post system is no way to judge overall popularity WP. The tories at their absolute best, when winning the 1983 election, had something like 42% of the popular vote but won effectively 66% of the seats in parliament. I could not vote for the tories for billions of years, given an eternal life time, in my constituency and I suspect that the conservatives would win every time. My vote in a general election means very little. Yeah this does work for labour too, like under Tony Blair, but the disproportional representation was wrong there too.

Boris is shit scared of a second referendum because he knows he’ll lose it. Labour on the other hand aren’t shit scared of an election (they want one once no deal is dead and buried). A delay to the election and hopefully a second referendum before a general election could be a ground zero point for the tories (which they’ll richly deserve) ��
There are a few issues here Stolly.

Firstly you dismiss my point because of your perceived flaws in FPTP. However the point I made referred to 3 other national electoral events which were not FPTP.
All 5 national electoral events have produced leave majorities.

I don't believe that Boris is shit-scared of a 2nd referendum because of the potential result. I believe he is concerned at the damage to the system such a referendum would have.
Firstly, what question?
You can see the Remainers are for a two option BRINO or Remain. Labour's as you know is for the softest of soft Brexits and Remain.
The intent to airbrush leave out of a 2nd referendum is quite sinister in my opinion.

You only need to look across at France and Spain to see the effects of political chicanery.
The Brits are rather more reserved it has to be said, but if you keep poking with that stick....

and then we have the recurring issue of what happens if Remain win a 2nd referendum 52/48 assuming Remain gets back on such a referendum?
Best of 3?
What type of Remain?
3 years of debate to see how we create a remain arrangement with the EU that respects the views of the 48?
After 3 years do we put the Remain "deal" to the electorate in a confirmatory referendum?
Would that 3rd confirmatory referendum have the options of "Remain Light" or No Deal?

and round and round we go.....

Finally (for now )you say that Labour want a General Election once no deal is dead and buried. You can't actually reach that point.
Assuming that Boris Johnson's deal passes, even with an amendment such as Labour are currently proposing for a Customs Union to be added as a preferred outcome. We leave, there's an election. The Tories or a Tory/Brexit Party coalition win. The previous issues are irrelevant as a Government with a majority can do more or less what they want for 5 years.

And that is why Labour are refusing a General Election. All polling suggests they will tank and the degree of their downfall only seems to look worse with each successive week's polling.

That is why, despite back in early September, the offer of a 15/10 General Election was declined. It could have delivered a Remain PM in to Downing Street before EU Council.

But they are shit-scared.

It looks more likely, that even if there is an extension, Labour will not go for a GE, but they will seek to lead a minority Govt.
In fact this weekend they have been discussing this very issue with the DUP.

Hansard 4/9
Patrick McLoughlin Chair, European Statutory Instruments Committee
"Does the Leader of the Opposition want a general election? A yes or no will suffice."

Jeremy Corbyn Leader of Her Majesty's Official Opposition, Leader of the Labour Party
"The right hon. Gentleman obviously did not hear what I just said. Before he gently interrupted me, I was about to point out that the offer of the election today is a bit like the offer of an apple to Snow White from the Wicked Queen, because what the Prime Minister is offering is not an apple or even an election, but the poison of a no deal. I repeat what I said last night. Let this Bill pass and gain Royal Assent, and then we will back an election"

As you can see, Corbyn promised a General Election twice. On the 3/9 to the Prime Minister. Again on the 4/9 here.

He wanted the Benn Act passed.
The Tories were planning to filibuster it in the Lords
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...k-no-deal-bill
but let it pass after the confirmation from Corbyn.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...tch-filibuster