Coronavirus

[Stagger]

I'm a working man and just want my holiday.

[Oracle]

I recently read Bransons autobiography and he doesn't come across as a bad bloke at all.

I used to go to virgin records on new street in Birmingham, his first business , he was serving customers way back then, and would chat to any of us. Pleasant enough, The word I would use to describe him is “driven”

The dirty tricks played by BA and lord king on virgin were a disgrace.

I was coming back from there when the tavern in the town pub blew, just round the corner, courtesy IRA. The first of three I was close to. It’s why my hatred of communist creep apologists like Corbyn and McDonnell runs deep.

[Oracle]

I'm a working man and just want my holiday.

But in the end everyone has to pay for COVID.
Why are you immune from that?

[Graham Breeze]

I used to go to virgin records on new street in Birmingham, his first business , he was serving customers way back then, and would chat to any of us. Pleasant enough, The word I would use to describe him is “driven”

The dirty tricks played by BA and lord king on virgin were a disgrace.

I was coming back from there when the tavern in the town pub blew, just round the corner, courtesy IRA. The first of three I was close to. It’s why my hatred of communist creep apologists like Corbyn and McDonnell runs deep.

His first business was mail order. He took cash from buyers on sale but didn't have to pay the record companies for 90 days (Not the only business to do that of course) and IIRC he omitted to pay any tax until he was found out - but by then he could move into shops.

Your loathing of Corbyn et al is, of course, admirable and totally justified and indicative of the sound judgement you can (often) demonstrate!

[Oracle]

Virgin Atlantic employs 8000 people. That’s well over 100000 man years employment.
That’s is billions in wages, tax, national insurance.
It also puts a fortune into supply industries.
I recollect from his accounts he owns 25 percent? of his fleet book value , which at 100 million an aircraft is eyewatering.

Far from “ snake oil “ virgin is recognised to be a quality offering in a market in which his US competitors hide from their creditors behind chapter 11. So from unfair competition from BA, he now has unfair competition from the US. No wonder he loses money, the surprise is how little not how much. He also cares. If you have a serious customer gripe about virgin, you may well get a call from RB. Similar to bannatyne in that regard.

Given how manifestly unfair corporation tax is, in every regard, and capital allowances in particular, I’m not surprised he leases.

As for an agenda Graham, I am just pro enterprise,
and pissed at how the public sector always pretends it is hard done but always on far better terms. Take the number of 100k plus salaries in the average university or council. It is scandalous. The public sector is presently furloughed on full pay. The private sector gets 80 percent. Not to mention public sector pensions, whose average retirement age is 60. It is manifestly unfair on those who have to earn the money that pays for it all.

So only the question is : would you rather have UK jobs and airline, or would you rather give it to the US? Then we would inevitably be held hostage to whatever prices they decide to milk our market, you choose.
These big enterprises are very hard to start, so easy to let go.

His partner in virgin is delta. They got bailed by the US, with specific and no doubt targeted condition of not funding non US airlines( ie prevents delta helping out)
We should simply bail Virgin, with grants not loans.

As I have said before on here: the problem with anonymity, dear Oracle, is that everyone has an agenda but secrecy hides that. It is easy with riches to pontificate.

Virgin Atlantic has lost money for years and has few assets since it leases its aircraft. It does have value in its landing slots and if it goes belly-up another airline will buy them and probably hire lots of VA employees as well. So those who fly from Heathrow will still have lots of carriers to choose from.

You argue as though a company going bust is the apocalypse but if there is value in it someone will recognise that and step in and buy it, and if there isn't - why should individuals (maybe someone running a "one-man" business) prop up a vain (alleged) billionaire with their money?

Branson is a snake-oil salesman and always has been. But perhaps you have been his quest on Neckar?

For the avoidance of doubt. I haven't.

[Graham Breeze]

Virgin Atlantic employs 8000 people. That’s well over 100000 man years employment.
That’s is billions in wages, tax, national insurance.
It also puts a fortune into supply industries.
I recollect from his accounts he owns 25 percent? of his fleet book value , which at 100 million an aircraft is eyewatering.

Far from “ snake oil “ virgin is recognised to be a quality offering in a market in which his US competitors hide from their creditors behind chapter 11. So from unfair competition from BA, he now has unfair competition from the US. No wonder he loses money, the surprise is how little not how much. He also cares. If you have a serious customer gripe about virgin, you may well get a call from RB. Similar to bannatyne in that regard.

Given how manifestly unfair corporation tax is, in every regard, and capital allowances in particular, I’m not surprised he leases.

As for an agenda Graham, I am just pro enterprise,
and pissed at how the public sector always pretends it is hard done but always on far better terms. Take the number of 100k plus salaries in the average university or council. It is scandalous. The public sector is presently furloughed on full pay. The private sector gets 80 percent. Not to mention public sector pensions, whose average retirement age is 60. It is manifestly unfair on those who have to earn the money that pays for it all.

So only the question is : would you rather have UK jobs and airline, or would you rather give it to the US? Then we would inevitably be held hostage to whatever prices they decide to milk our market, you choose.
These big enterprises are very hard to start, so easy to let go.

His partner in virgin is delta. They got bailed by the US, with specific and no doubt targeted condition of not funding non US airlines( ie prevents delta helping out)
We should simply bail Virgin, with grants not loans.

I suggest you read today's The Times page 45 on Mr Branson and Virgin Atlantic.

The Daily Telegraph reports (page 31) that Virgin Australia owes £3.5 billion to 12,000 creditors. But it is now in bankruptcy protection so the beard will be OK on Neckar.

I wholeheartedly agree about bloated salaries in councils and universities (not sure where you went - Imperial College?).

I worked for a plc.

[bigfella]

I suggest you read today's The Times page 45 on Mr Branson and Virgin Atlantic.

The Daily Telegraph reports (page 31) that Virgin Australia owes £3.5 billion to 12,000 creditors. But it is now in bankruptcy protection so the beard will be OK on Neckar.

I wholeheartedly agree about bloated salaries in councils and universities (not sure where you went - Imperial College?).

I worked for a plc.

Hasn't he offered Neckar as security against any loan to bail out Virgin?

[Oracle]

I don’t know if you understand accounts, but valued on going concern basis in last years accounts
Virgin Australia still had 600mn net book value , ( ie positive value) although was losing hundreds millions a year.

Value any business on non going concern basis, all leases and debts immediately payable with contingent liabilities, it never looks pretty.

Branson only had a small holding. 10 percent?

It shows what a tough business airlines are.
Not sure leaving quantas as sole big player is good for Australia.

But consider if these airlines go bust, then airbus will fold as well. Where does it stop?
Avoiding Contagion is the reason UK should fund virgin.
Apart from the jobs and tax those people pay.
EasyJet needs to cancel orders for a lot of planes.

I refuse to read the times after last weeks disgraceful article on government response to corona.

I suggest you read today's The Times page 45 on Mr Branson and Virgin Atlantic.

The Daily Telegraph reports (page 31) that Virgin Australia owes £3.5 billion to 12,000 creditors. But it is now in bankruptcy protection so the beard will be OK on Neckar.

I wholeheartedly agree about bloated salaries in councils and universities (not sure where you went - Imperial College?).

I worked for a plc.

[Graham Breeze]

I don’t know if you understand accounts, but valued on going concern basis in last years accounts
Virgin Australia still had 600mn net book value , ( ie positive value) although was losing hundreds millions a year.

Value any business on non going concern basis, all leases and debts immediately payable with contingent liabilities, it never looks pretty.

Branson only had a small holding. 10 percent?

It shows what a tough business airlines are.
Not sure leaving quantas as sole big player is good for Australia.

But consider if these airlines go bust, then airbus will fold as well. Where does it stop?
Avoiding Contagion is the reason UK should fund virgin.
Apart from the jobs and tax those people pay.
EasyJet needs to cancel orders for a lot of planes.

I refuse to read the times after last weeks disgraceful article on government response to corona.

Noted. Well the FT is the "best" newspaper we have but it is a bit expensive for this pensioner.

Branson does only have 10%.

And it is Qantas. It is an acronym. Have you never been to Australia?

I recognise your arguments but, with respect, you always seem to argue death and despondency and do not take account of (admittedly unknown) reactive change. People respond to events and nobody can forecast with any accuracy what those responses will be because they are dynamic.

So you may think all is lost but then along will come someone with a compass.

So have faith in deus ex machina !

[Stagger]

But in the end everyone has to pay for COVID.
Why are you immune from that?

No problem in paying if everyone in our country pays an equal percentage of their annual income.

All in this together.