Page 64 of 357 FirstFirst ... 1454626364656674114164 ... LastLast
Results 631 to 640 of 3570

Thread: Coronavirus

  1. #631
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    1,130
    You are right Mike, that did sound too personal. Apologies.

    I was using your argument as a generic example of what I see as the biggest problem in the UK economy.

    That is the utter disconnect between public and private sectors. A public sector that expects guaranteed everything with terms of employment which sound like a benefit scheme not a job.

    It is never impacted by adverse change, so it becomes easy to clamour for more of this or less of that, accusing the private sector of greed, or goverment of incompetence because for them it is easy: it wont cost anything (ie never for the public sector!) so it is only "lack of compassion" or such utterly unfair and disingenuous argument that causes budgets to be limited.

    If I were to change one thing, I would make the entire public sector pensions and salaries linked to economic growth both up and DOWN!! Then we would be in it together. The private sector was trashed on COVID. We are headed for 14 percent reduction in GDP. All public sector salaries and pensions should reduce accordingly.

    Which is why I saw your comment on "employment" as an embodiment of Marie Antoinette. A let them eat cake approach to other jobs.

    If those in the public sector knew how difficult long term sustainable job creation was, they would applaud Richard Branson and Mike Ashley, These people are vilified. They would not be so quick to encourage job losses. They would not applaud Cult NHS who in the end just do the job they are paid to do. The reason there are so few entrepreneurs with 10000 employee businesses is that that is the hardest thing to do! Branson created minimum 250000 man years of employment possibly 500000.

    And worse cult NHS abuse the easy conditions. They all retire at 60 or less, many come back as contractors to screw NHS yet more whilst claiming pensions!. In the clamour against "Privatization" most seem to ignore the fact the GPs privatized NHS at inception the day their "Mouths were stuffed with Gold" . All the public sector and union rhetoric is wrong demonstrating a woeful disconnect between sectors.

    Did you know that entrepreneurs have some of the highest suicide rates there are? All entrepreneurs know a couple whose problems got so bad they took that way out. Did you know doctors have some of the lowest. Keeping companies afloat and paying other peoples wages is real stress. But that too is a disconnect. Teachers we are told have the stressful existence. They should try keeping companies afloat!

    Most people seem unaware: Ashley decided he wanted to employ local people in his supply chain and not go robotics which in hindsight he should have done. He preferred to employ. He got a gross kicking for his trouble. The problem is if he is to compete with those using robots, the employees are obliged to keep up the run rate. So the attacks on Ashley are wholly unfounded. People want the money his companies generate but then want to kick the golden goose that funds the NHS. Branson has had a dreadful time of public bodies refusing to play fair according to their own rule books. He has every right to sue, if they dont follow their procurement guidelines. They never do with him.

    I defy a public sector employee to tell me why facilities management is the only desirable way to perform routine services. They do not have the life experience to say. It is not about saving money or a "racket" as corbyn once said..

    But taking your thought further, I have to wonder if you know where drugs (for example) come from?
    OH has spent much of her life on aeroplanes, because even though big pharma and industry went to video call a full decade before parliament, doesnt altar the fact that every supplier of every part of the supply chain of a new drug has to be validated.You cannot audit a plant remotely. If you did FDA and EMA would throw the dossier out at regulatory stage. That means validation for all the failures as well as the successful drugs. Most drugs fail long before the public, indeed most medics ever hear of them.

    Or take my history, exporting high tech. We do need foreign income, and in any event there are not enough resources or money for every country to develop every product at home. The drug sector is no exception. So export import is how the economies have run since Bronze age times. So an army of people criss cross the globe to do everything from site appraisals for new plant, train employees on new plant, mend oil pipe lines, and a million other high skill occupations. In addition air courier is the only way you can get anything quickly. It is wonderland to kill globalization.



    Like PPE for example. A lot of the unsuitable ventilators and PPE are precisely because lack of travel has prevented the normal product validations which would precede purchases.

    I see much of the public sector as totally myopic.

    If I was to make a single change that put us all on the same side, I would force ALL pensions and public sector salaries to be linked to economic growth, not all these "guaranteed terms". MPs control return in economy. THey should be paid on that basis. For sure have the small inflation linked pension, but occupational pensions should follow economic invest ment rules.

    Then all would care about the golden goose that is private enterprise. Not treat it as a greedy leper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T View Post
    Attack the argument, not the man?
    I am allowed to have a different opinion.
    Given the huge carbon footprint of flying, when it comes to the individual, it is between them and their conscience as to whether they fly and how often, but the planet would prefer they didn't.
    The NHS saves lives/treats people's ill health - for free at the point of delivery - so that those people can create jobs. Money not spent on flights will be spent elsewhere, helping the process.
    Last edited by Oracle; 07-05-2020 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #632
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Over Haddon
    Posts
    3,088
    I think you are spot on Trav's. The horse has bolted.

    My gripe is with those who are making the most noise about climate change, and some of them a very nice living out of it too, and their hypocrisy in telling others what to do and then swanning all over the world on jollies dressed up as conferences.

    Later this year around 40,000 folk are supposed to be attending the UN Climate Change summit, COP26 in Glasgow. I doubt very many will be cycling, canoeing or walking there.

    One thing this crisis has shown us is that there is a huge amount of "business" travel that is unnecessary and could be cut back. The standard of living of many prostitutes worldwide would suffer but, Hey Ho!

    Not heard from Greta Thunberg lately. I thought that she might be screaming the house down about all the plastic that is being used in the manufacture of PPE.
    Visibility good except in Hill Fog

  3. #633
    Master
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    NE Lakes/Coventry
    Posts
    5,439
    Quote Originally Posted by Llani Boy View Post
    I think you are spot on Trav's. The horse has bolted.

    My gripe is with those who are making the most noise about climate change, and some of them a very nice living out of it too, and their hypocrisy in telling others what to do and then swanning all over the world on jollies dressed up as conferences.

    Later this year around 40,000 folk are supposed to be attending the UN Climate Change summit, COP26 in Glasgow. I doubt very many will be cycling, canoeing or walking there.

    One thing this crisis has shown us is that there is a huge amount of "business" travel that is unnecessary and could be cut back. The standard of living of many prostitutes worldwide would suffer but, Hey Ho!

    Not heard from Greta Thunberg lately. I thought that she might be screaming the house down about all the plastic that is being used in the manufacture of PPE.

    Agree with this, in fact we were discussing the very same in our office, about half an hour before we got notice to work from home due to the lockdown... whilst i can do my job at home, to 100% of the standard, and perhaps 85-90% of the speed i could in the office, i'd still prefer to be office based. But a lot of the people in my company spend hours per day travelling, when the past few weeks/months have showed us that it is not always necessary.

    Sometimes it is most definitely necessary, as Oracle points out above... in a previous role, our client was the foremost worldwide manufacturer/producer of surgical medical instruments and tools. We were one of the few companies who provide the necessary plant to keep their factories free of dust/fume so as to be a safe working environment. You cannot survey/test/measure a client site of such importance via video link... so off we have to go on the plane to Cork (which incidentally has some fantastic pubs!!).

  4. #634
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Blackburn
    Posts
    8,897
    Quote Originally Posted by Travs View Post
    Attack incoming...!

    Whilst it is very noble to have genuine concern for the environment, i personally think the world as it is now has gone too far past the point of no return, and we are now in the hands of technology to clean up the planet. I don't think we can put the worldwide flying/travel culture back in it's box.

    We can all say we are only going to holiday abroad only once a decade, but it's really a drop in the ocean compared to worldwide commuting by air, scheduled air services, etc.

    I liken it in some ways to the argument (which i recently had on facebook) that fellrunners should only do local races to ease their carbon footprint... another noble idea, but a couple of hundred fellrunners driving round the UK doesn't even touch the surface of tens and tens of thousands of tourists heading into London every day, let alone on weekends.

    Should we put a stop to European football competition? Test cricket? Olympic games? Formula One? Or is it only us plebs who are not allowed the privilege of earning a living then visiting foreign shores...?

    What about the next generation... my two nephews for example... as a family we do everything we can to give my nephew hopes and dreams and an imagination, i couldn't bear to see him become another "ipad drone" like many kids are even at his young age...

    I remember seeing his face when he first saw a waterfall (Stock Ghyll Force just round the corner from you!) and using a lttle map to walk around Rydal Water. I love to teach him how to say "hello" in French, Italian, Chinese, "Australian" (g'day mate), etc... In his last video call to us, he ran out on us because he wanted to get his World Atlas out and read about the animals that live at the North and South Pole...

    Should we crush the dreams of young children like that, and say sorry matey, you're not allowed to visit these places, and you'll only ever experience the world through your Ipad, PC, TV screens.

    Can't help thinking that the cat is out of the bag in regards to world travel and the solution won't/can't come from trying to stop it.
    and to cap it all off, just like the countries healthy have been quarantined, and the economy closed down without clear evidence it would work, we are also being asked to reduce air travel, on flimsy evidence that man made climate change as a result will cause Antarctica to melt.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  5. #635
    Master
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    NE Lakes/Coventry
    Posts
    5,439
    The economy is back up to full-tilt already... in the past three hours we've had the gippo scrapman, and an ice cream van in the street.

    Long live England...

  6. #636
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by Travs View Post
    The economy is back up to full-tilt already... in the past three hours we've had the gippo scrapman, and an ice cream van in the street.

    Long live England...
    I don’t post on here much and tend to watch from a distance, but this has made my day!

  7. #637
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ambleside
    Posts
    6,160
    An interesting thread on Twitter by Carl T. Bergstrom, Professor of Biology in Seattle.

    A common train of thought is that we should let the virus "do its thing" as most of us are going to get it eventually - herd immunity - and the sooner we get it over with, the better for the economy.

    There are several obvious objections to this idea, and one less obvious one which he points out.

    I will start with the obvious: 1/ we don't want to overwhelm the NHS - beds/ventilators/PPE/experienced staff. As we have seen, even apparently simple things like PPE can cause huge problems. As to training up all the staff needed to manage all those patients in the Nightingale Hospitals - wow.
    2/ if we flatten the curve, even if the numbers under the curve are the same, at least people are dying later, even if it is "only" months.
    3/ those months might mean that drugs/a vaccine becomes available.

    And the less obvious? To achieve herd immunity, a certain % of the population needs to have been infected, depending on R nought. The higher R nought, the higher the %. For an R nought of 2 it is 50%, for 4 it is 75%.
    But the epidemic does not just stop when you achieve the herd immunity threshold - those still in the process of becoming infected still become infected, so there is overshoot. The higher R nought, the greater this overshoot - so that even if the herd immunity threshold is say 60%, the overshoot might mean a total of 80 % become infected - and all the extra deaths that would involve. Remember R nought is a variable over which we have partial control, via social distancing for example. And herd immunity is achieved when the number of daily infections is at its highest, so overshoot is easy to understand.

    So the numbers are not the same when you flatten the curve, even if you ignore NHS overload/life prolongation/drug and vaccine development.

    To make it clear, I am not at all an advocate of herd immunity as a strategy - it will happen of course, but we should be flattening that curve as much as possible - it will save lives, and nothing is worse for the economy than continuing large numbers of deaths, and a fearful public.

  8. #638
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Blackburn
    Posts
    8,897
    The last 24 hours on Facebook is unbelievable. I'm considering whether to stay on.

    This forum is one of the last bastions of courteous exchanges on the CV topic. We often disagree, but at least we do so almost entirely without insults.

    The latest one peeing my off was a Meme.

    "The UK is now divided in to 2; those who think lockdown should end 7th May and those of us who have a fecking brain"

    said my bit, and unfriended.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  9. #639
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ambleside
    Posts
    6,160
    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    The last 24 hours on Facebook is unbelievable. I'm considering whether to stay on.

    This forum is one of the last bastions of courteous exchanges on the CV topic. We often disagree, but at least we do so almost entirely without insults.

    The latest one peeing my off was a Meme.

    "The UK is now divided in to 2; those who think lockdown should end 7th May and those of us who have a fecking brain"

    said my bit, and unfriended.
    FB can be weird - I was told off recently for suggesting changes to a recipe on a cookbook recipe page - WTF?

  10. #640
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    1,130
    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    The last 24 hours on Facebook is unbelievable. I'm considering whether to stay on.

    This forum is one of the last bastions of courteous exchanges on the CV topic. We often disagree, but at least we do so almost entirely without insults.

    The latest one peeing my off was a Meme.

    "The UK is now divided in to 2; those who think lockdown should end 7th May and those of us who have a fecking brain"

    said my bit, and unfriended.
    Some days I get a dozen of these memes, anti government /only cult nhs is wonderful / all businessmen are criminals depriving workers .... / austerity killed 100000 ( it is shameful doctors put their name to self serving pseudoscience) , yet another “ expert” disagreeing with government “ experts” etc .

    But Complain about them or respond to them and so called friends either unfriend or block.
    I have never to my knowledge initiated a political post or indeed shared one. I only ever respond and rarely at that.

    But It seems I am obliged to receive such things in silence or agreement to be worthy as a friend. If that is the choice , No thanks.
    Last edited by Oracle; 08-05-2020 at 01:20 PM.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •