101 uses for a mobile!

[Rudolph Hooker]

When I first started, we didn't use compasses we relied on watching t'sky and studying t'walls to see which side were mossy. We didn't have maps neither - relied entirely on lurkel knowledge. As for full body cover, if it were cold, you just painted an extra layer of woad on yerself - and if Team Captain caught you shivvering, you'd get a good thrashing to keep you warm. Mobiles indeed!

But seriously, I'd like to just add a piece of information to the argument. The year before last, one of the Peak District teams was involved in a very wide search for a group which could have been on either Kinder or Bleaklow. The weather was bad, and there was a serious concern that if this group were out for a long time, the outcome would be grim. Also, the potential area was huge, and this very fact meant that to search this area well would take far too long, even if all the teams in the peak district were called in to help.

Under these circumstances, the police persuaded the group's mobile phone provider to release some of their data, and the team used this to pinpoint where the group were (or at least the area), which greatly reduced the search - and it was a much happier outcome.

This predicament is not unlike the problem which faced Edale MRT (the lads who will be watching over us runners on the Skyline) after this year's Tanky's Trog. Then, a young lady missing "somewhere between Marsden and Edale" - fortunately this turned out to be a clerical error and she hadn't started.

When you think about this, you realise that, sooner or later, one of our long organisers was going to ask runners to carry mobiles (I'm surprised it hasn't already happened) - and, of course, the first one to do it would receive the most criticism. But we shouldn't be too hard on him - he only has our welfare at heart.

[Al.]

I have made arrangements to borrow my son's mobile.

It hangs above his cot and plays "old macdonald". Perhaps it will soothe me if I get injured and have to have a lie down.

Sorry, but thought a bit of a levity was needed. It is supposed to be xmas after all.

On a more serious note: Andy, if you want a cheap phone in the bum bag, then it goes in, simple as that. Well done for taking on the organisation of the Skyline.

[Dux de lux]

I think this is a very important debate and there is a definate case for this being the thin edge of the wedge where self reliance on the fells is concerned.

Most runners enjoy the personal freedom of being self-reliant in races. For many, carryiong a mobile changes the nature and 'feel' of the racing experience. It also changes the nature of the race for those considering entering for the first time, or whether to compete in bad weather - 'oh well Ive got my phone if anything goes wrong'

Making carrying a phone compulsory is taking away a little bit more of the competitors responsibility for their own safety and putting it in the hands of the organiser. I think we should resist this. There will no doubt be cases where mobile phones can be used to make things safer - this isnt in despute - but that doesnt make it right to enforce taking them.

This could easily and quickly become the norm. Im sure race organisers when making decisions about safety in their race imagine the court case and whether their decisions will stand up to scrutiny in the event of the worse happening. How would a court view the fact that the Edale race makes mobile phones compulsory but 'your' race didnt? Why not? Does that make you negligent?

The 'thick end of the wedge' that could follow might be:
Compulsory to carry phones that have been tested, approved and work
Compulsory to carry rest of kit that has been approved/tested
Logical progression to GPS for navigation and positioning
Races only being 'licensed' in areas with mobile coverage
Race organisers having to pass courses in safety before organising a race
Marshalls having to pass courses in safety before marshalling a race
Runners to carry GPS tracking chip to help organisers locate them

It is no bad thing that these sound ridiculous to read - imagine them applying to fell running!!? The scary thing is that some have already been proposed and some already happen in other similar sports. We should resist these changes to preserve the self-reliant nature of fell running.

[Rudolph Hooker]

I quite agree that it is a fell runner's right to be able to run unfettered over the hills, and to be totally responsible for his own safety - and when I run over Kinder in half an hour, I will be doing just that.

But many races (even Borrowdale) us MR Teams as safety back-up these days, and these teams have no prerogative when it comes to choosing whether they can use technology to help them in their job. We cannot ignore this fact any more than we can uninvent intrusive contraptions like mobile phones or GPS units.

Yes it's the thin end of a wedge, but the wedge hasn't just appeared - it's been there for a long time. If we carry on ignoring it, it will not go away.

[Dux de lux]

The purpose of MR teams is to save lives on mountains - of course they have to use technology if it helps them do that. My reasoning was that the nature of fell running - and fell racing - has been, and should be, self reliance. Making mobiles compulsory erodes that and changes the nature of it. I dont advocate 'ignoring' the thin end of the wedge but resisting it in a considered way to preserve the sport as it is

[XRunner]

The 'thick end of the wedge' that could follow might be:

You may want to add:

All runners to have a medical certificate.

All runners to provide full medical information
which will be printed on their number.

All runners to have individual insurance cover.

[Graham Breeze]

I don't know how many of the reactionaries posting here organise fell races but I have always regarded it a privilege to compete in a fell race someone has kindly taken the trouble to organise and not a right.

[Stagger]

I don't know how many of the reactionaries posting here organise fell races but I have always regarded it a privilege to compete in a fell race someone has kindly taken the trouble to organise and not a right.

Seconded

[Wheeze]

I felt it was a privilege to be putting something back into a sport I love and I would not have wanted to change the nature of it for the sake of my own comfort.

As has already been said, disclaimers are signed (yes I know they are 'worthless' in the hands of a good lawyer). If the RO is acting in way that is in accordance with accepted practise (as laid down in FRA rules), there will be no personal liability in a court. The point here is the shifting of what defines 'accepted practise' and how that affects the nature of the sport, as so eloquently put by De Lux.

Lets not get arsey about this.

[XRunner]

I don't know how many of the reactionaries posting here organise fell races but I have always regarded it a privilege to compete in a fell race someone has kindly taken the trouble to organise and not a right.

It is a choice we have to compete in a fell race. If the conditions of entry are too severe then some people will decide not to participate.