Borrowdale Fell Race

[Graham Breeze]

2009 was the worst.
Attachment 8922

Exactly so. After such ignominy I never entered the race again.

[Steve Chilton]

If one was going to use formulaic approach, then amount of ascent might come into it. When researching 'Its a hill, get over it' I compiled data for many races of their 'feet per mile' ratio. [Full data set is in the appendix of the book] Relative amount of ascent per unit of length gives an idea of toughness (although some could be 'easy' ascent and some 'rough'). These are numbers for races quoted above in feet/mile (sorry I am old school):
Darren Holloway 373
Wasdale 429
Ennerdale 326
Old crown round 322
Duddon 333
TWA 493
Great Lakes 538
Borrowdale 382
Indicates that both Great Lakes and Teenager pack a lot of climbing in.

[Graham Breeze]

If one was going to use formulaic approach, then amount of ascent might come into it. When researching 'Its a hill, get over it' I compiled data for many races of their 'feet per mile' ratio. [Full data set is in the appendix of the book] Relative amount of ascent per unit of length gives an idea of toughness (although some could be 'easy' ascent and some 'rough'). These are numbers for races quoted above in feet/mile (sorry I am old school):
Darren Holloway 373
Wasdale 429
Ennerdale 326
Old crown round 322
Duddon 333
TWA 493
Great Lakes 538
Borrowdale 382
Indicates that both Great Lakes and Teenager pack a lot of climbing in.

Thank you.

Interesting data. Even so Ennerdale is tougher than Borrowdale because of greater "time on your legs".

I think what is really needed is a rigorous and comprehensive examination for The Fellrunner, acknowledging any previous articles on the subject and addressing all the factors.

Such a review would be beyond me but for someone with expertise in cartography?

[Steve Chilton]

Thank you.

Interesting data. Even so Ennerdale is tougher than Borrowdale because of greater "time on your legs".

I think what is really needed is a rigorous and comprehensive examination for The Fellrunner, acknowledging any previous articles on the subject and addressing all the factors.

Such a review would be beyond me but for someone with expertise in cartography?

Very droll. Might be tempted - but other things taking my time at mo. We will see.

[Mark G]

Thank you.

Interesting data. Even so Ennerdale is tougher than Borrowdale because of greater "time on your legs".

I think what is really needed is a rigorous and comprehensive examination for The Fellrunner, acknowledging any previous articles on the subject and addressing all the factors.

Such a review would be beyond me but for someone with expertise in cartography?

I think a key difference is that Borrowdale gets progressively rougher and harder (It's reasonably easy terrain until after Esk Hause) while Ennerdale has easy terrain in the last part of the race - but by then you are too tired to take much advantage of it.

[PeteS]

Scarf's equivalence between distance and climb is an extension of Naismith's rule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith%27s_rule
I.e. what would the equivalent distance be if it was flat?
So in descending order of km (sorry imperial folk!) this gives us the following...

Wasdale 55.8
Darren Holloway 55.4
Ennerdale 54.9
OCR 53.4
Duddon 43.5
TWA 42.9
Borrowdale 42.8
Great Lakes 37.9

Obviously it still doesn't take into account terrain nor as Mark has pointed out, by the time you start the climb of Great Gable the wheels are already starting to come off but at least gives a reasonably reliable comparison

[Graham Breeze]

Scarf's equivalence between distance and climb is an extension of Naismith's rule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith%27s_rule
I.e. what would the equivalent distance be if it was flat?
So in descending order of km (sorry imperial folk!) this gives us the following...

Wasdale 55.8
Darren Holloway 55.4
Ennerdale 54.9
OCR 53.4
Duddon 43.5
TWA 42.9
Borrowdale 42.8
Great Lakes 37.9

Obviously it still doesn't take into account terrain nor as Mark has pointed out, by the time you start the climb of Great Gable the wheels are already starting to come off but at least gives a reasonably reliable comparison

Any list that has Wasdale at the top feels right.

The above list of 8 includes 5 that are now LCT counters and the three that aren't hadn't been invented twenty years ago when the LCT was conceived.

The LCT was conceived to bolster low numbers at Ennerdale and Wasdale and other events were included to make up enough races for a Grand Prix.

So if I was co-designing the LCT today, on the same basis of supporting low-entry events, it would include very different races and there would probably be no Langdale, Three Shires or Borrowdale.

Who would have thought?

[Travs]

Any list that has Wasdale at the top feels right.



So if I was co-designing the LCT today, on the same basis of supporting low-entry events, it would include very different races and there would probably be no Langdale, Three Shires or Borrowdale.

Who would have thought?

Super Long
Wasdale
Ennerdale
Buttermere
Old Crown Round

Long
Howtown
Duddon
Helvellyn & The Dodds/Sedbergh Hills

[ba-ba]

Too much running on H&Doddds and Sedbergh Hills. I'd go Great Lakes instead as it can sometimes suffer for numbers.

The ROs of Wasdale (Rich Eastman)and Ennerdale (Colin Dulson) are planning on stepping down in the next couple of years. Hopefully there'll be suitable people to take these on - the FRA and local community is aware.

[Graham Breeze]

Too much running on H&Doddds and Sedbergh Hills. I'd go Great Lakes instead as it can sometimes suffer for numbers.

The ROs of Wasdale (Rich Eastman)and Ennerdale (Colin Dulson) are planning on stepping down in the next couple of years. Hopefully there'll be suitable people to take these on - the FRA and local community is aware.

I've submitted a little thing to Tory about the winners of the LCT over the last 20 years and I again give credit to Jon Broxap (then FRA Championships Co-ordinator) for ensuring that the super-longs were regular championship counters and that they were protected from clashes with other championship events.

Fell running without Wasdale and Ennerdale - not least because of their long histories - would not be worthy of its name.