How do......

[noel]

Al you need to brush up on your evolutionary theory. Most people subscribe to Darwin and not Lamarck. Great running though.

Nonsense - Lamarck sounds good to me. One question - does any adaptation absolutely need to have happened before my birth. To put it another way, if I mither my parents into doing more training now, will I get better without training any harder?

Also, where does Zen come into it? Can I get faster by thinking about it more?

And another thing, if I've been reincarnated from having been a slow animal (like a hedgehog), should I work on my distance training more or focus on sprints?

[L.F.F.]

Nonsense - Lamarck sounds good to me. One question - does any adaptation absolutely need to have happened before my birth. To put it another way, if I mither my parents into doing more training now, will I get better without training any harder?

Also, where does Zen come into it? Can I get faster by thinking about it more?

And another thing, if I've been reincarnated from having been a slow animal (like a hedgehog), should I work on my distance training more or focus on sprints?

All good questions.

I think the answers are: no, no, yes, no.

[Fleeter]

I think we could all get up to a decent standard if we trained correctly (notice i said correctly and not hard!) the key points being what you want to achieve. I'm not a big fan of this big mileage theory, unless you want to run ultras, its about experimenting with what you can absorb, and doing specific sessions for what you want to race. I personally drink to much, eat to much junk food and dont train consistently enough, if i cut down the drinking and sorted my diet out and trained properly then maybe i would be half decent, but i cant be arsed.

[Wharfedale Old Gal]

I think categries should be based around weight then i might win something :w00t:

My team mate and I had a similar discussion some years ago - there should be a matrix...including weight it should include whether you have children, do you work full time....maybe bring in testosterone testing ;-)....some of us fair to middling runners might then be in with a chance of getting a prize...(note, before I get berated, this is all tongue in cheek of course).

[Bobster]

Is the training totally fell specific? Would a year living and training in the lakes improve someone greatly in this discipline?

The key here is 'training'. When i first moved to the area my form dropped off quite dramatically. I took it for granted, became lazy (I'll go out next week when it stops raining), drank too much of the local beer and ended up stopping lots to admire the views.

[Mike T]

What limits most of us when we run? - despite the fact that running makes us breathless it is not our lungs, nor is it our heart, which simply pumps out the blood that is returned to it; it is the mitochondria and enzymes in our muscles which have to provide energy in the form of ATP without generating too much acid - in other words our VO2max and what percentage of this we can maintain for a period of time. How trainable one's VO2max is has been debated elsewhere but I suspect it is more fixed than people would hope - certainly that is Noakes' opinion; the % of VO2max that can be maintained is more trainable but requires constant training or it will quickly drift back to where it was.

Most good runners are slim and have longish legs and thin calves - though just because you are built like this does not mean you will be a good runner. We know you need to be tall to be a good basketball player or high jumper, to have big hands/feet to be a good swimmer, and to be "big" to be a shot-putter - these things are easy to see, but we cannot "see" VO2max, which makes it difficult to understand and to work out WITHOUT A TRAINING PROGRAM who has the potential to be a top level runner. Some of us will never get above the middle echelons of mediocrity no matter how hard/sensibly we train.

[IainR]

What limits most of us when we run? - despite the fact that running makes us breathless it is not our lungs, nor is it our heart, which simply pumps out the blood that is returned to it; it is the mitochondria and enzymes in our muscles which have to provide energy in the form of ATP without generating too much acid - in other words our VO2max and what percentage of this we can maintain for a period of time. How trainable one's VO2max is has been debated elsewhere but I suspect it is more fixed than people would hope - certainly that is Noakes' opinion; the % of VO2max that can be maintained is more trainable but requires constant training or it will quickly drift back to where it was.

Most good runners are slim and have longish legs and thin calves - though just because you are built like this does not mean you will be a good runner. We know you need to be tall to be a good basketball player or high jumper, to have big hands/feet to be a good swimmer, and to be "big" to be a shot-putter - these things are easy to see, but we cannot "see" VO2max, which makes it difficult to understand and to work out WITHOUT A TRAINING PROGRAM who has the potential to be a top level runner. Some of us will never get above the middle echelons of mediocrity no matter how hard/sensibly we train.

but wasn't there a world marathon record holder with an incredibly low VO2max, well for that level of sportsman, mind 60's IIRC..

[Mike T]

but wasn't there a world marathon record holder with an incredibly low VO2max, well for that level of sportsman, mind 60's IIRC..

I am away from my reference books at the moment and cannot recall who it was but I can remember a top runner with a VO2max of "only" 70 - as opposed to 75- 90 for top runners/cyclists/cross country skiers, and about 40 for the average person; - the individual concerned made up for it by being able to maintain a very much higher % of his VO2max than his peers. It is a bit like a "short" basket ball player of 6 foot 4 inches being able to compete with the seven footers as he can jump higher.

[Bobster]

perhaps at a tangent to an otherwise absorbing thread (but hopefully still relevant). Clearly to be good you have to put the time in - you need hours on the fell running and training effectively. How do people fit the hours into a busy work/home life. Maybe I am just incredibly disorganised or don't manage my time effectively enough but the very most I seem to be able to manage on a typical week is 4 hours. How many hours a week to top runners do a week and how do they fit it in to their lives. We can talk about commitment/desire etc but when you factor in jobs, time with children etc. I don't seem to have that much for running. is this a similar story for other mere mortals or is this just me being ineffective. Part of being great is obviously the physical/mental make up of a person but they also need time. Where do they find this time from?

[IainR]

Derek Clayton I think it was.. 67 - 69 depending on the source.. 2:08 marathon.. ex world record holder

Like you say.. could maintain higher Vo2

"How do some elite runners make up for lower levels of VO2 max?
Although all elite runners have VO2 max values well above the population mean, the correlation between VO2 max and performance is not absolute. Derek Clayton only had a VO2 max of 69 ml/kg/min. and Frank Shorter only recorded a value of 71 ml/kg/min., yet both of these runners ran marathon times of under 2:11 and surely outperformed runners with higher values. This variation in VO2 max values among the elite is possible because VO2 max is only one of several factors that determine running performance. These other factors include mental attitude (ability to tolerate pain), running economy (how efficiently one runs), and lactate threshold (fastest pace you can maintain without accumulating large amounts of lactic acid in your blood). A runner with a relatively low VO2 max, but high in these other performance factors, could outperform a runner with a significantly higher VO2 max but with poor running economy and a low lactate threshold. For example, Derek Clayton and Frank Shorter compensated for their lower VO2 max values with their high efficiency and ability to run their marathons at a high percentage of their VO2 max without accumulating too much lactic acid (high lactate threshold)."