:D Barefoot Running

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Originally Posted by A.P.E Knott

I love this thread.
The whole barefoot running natural hippy type thing makes me smile.
For some people less is more,but these people have always and will always be super efficient runners,
[...]
To quote Tim Noakes from "The Lore of Running" "We do not understand why modern running shoes help protect against injury , but they do".

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Hmmm those post always make me smile. :p

Let me introduce me to you. I am a super efficient runner barefooting races up to half marathon distances and having completed 2 marathons in Vibram Five Fingers KSO. The super efficient runner I am is still currently weighting between 215-220 lbs. Sadly no one had told me previously that I am a super efficient runner 'cause I think I wouldn't be struggling achieving a decent time at marathon enabling me to qualify for Boston or even better New York. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by BGSec

Jeff Browning is a well known US ultra runner who has been making the move towards natural running.

His posts for 2 Jan, 9 Jan and 10 Jan (particularly the last) are well worth a read.

http://www.gobroncobilly.com/

Inov8 Insider, you will enjoy them particularly. :D

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Anton Krupicka is another one of those Ultra Runners who believe in natural running :D

http://antonkrupicka.blogspot.com/

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Originally Posted by eavesy187

Being relatively new to running i think I'm going to go with the minimalist technique from the start. I've been told that i already run with a mid/forefoot strike which has to be a good start. I also spend all my time at home barefoot and have done for as long as i can remember. And when I'm wearing shoes they are usually vans which are also pretty flat. Think i'm going to have to ditch the pegasus before i get used to running in a shoe with a built up heel and get some f-lites :)

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You might think joining borntorun.org's forum

http://borntorun.org/

you might see a couple of faces you know from here ;)

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Originally Posted by southernsoftie

Did you find your calves get sore doing it this way intially? I still end a long road run after consciously running on the forefoot with very tight calves. I just consider it that I'm giving them more of a workout, but wondered if it got easier over time. Only been doing this for the last couple of months.

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Are you doing ball heel ball corectly? Maybe you're overdoing it trying to land on the forefoot?

Try relaxing more and you'll find out that you'll do ball heel ball more easily. Maybe you should try focussing on higher cadence (180 or more), landing under center of gravity and not making noise.

Luc :)

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Originally Posted by Twister

On the subject of down hill running. I think that it is very hard not to land on your heels when you are running on a very steep incline. (so perhaps its natural?) I've always believed in planting the whole foot though, as this provides better grip with a sole full of studs.

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I've also tried this, but I'm not convinced whole foot landing would give you better grip - more studs, yes, but your weight spread over more studs mean less pressure on each stud, so less 'penetration' (ooh err missus ;))

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Originally Posted by bfluc

Anton Krupicka is another one of those Ultra Runners who believe in natural running

http://antonkrupicka.blogspot.com/

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Anton has previously worn inov-8 for training & ultra races.
Then a big brand " sponsored" him.
What's interesting is that some " sponsored" runners with the big brands choose to wear inov-8 for when it really matters:cool::D

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Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider

Anton has previously worn inov-8 for training & ultra races.
Then a big brand " sponsored" him.
What's interesting is that some " sponsored" runners with the big brands choose to wear inov-8 for when it really matters:cool::D

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They know the best, no need to choose the rest ;)

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Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider

Anton has previously worn inov-8 for training & ultra races.
Then a big brand " sponsored" him.
What's interesting is that some " sponsored" runners with the big brands choose to wear inov-8 for when it really matters:cool::D

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Ah - but from what I rememeber reading from his blog, he still felt the need to take a bread knife to the sole of his f-lites...non minimalist enough?

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Originally Posted by Skids

Ah - but from what I rememeber reading from his blog, he still felt the need to take a bread knife to the sole of his f-lites...non minimalist enough?

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Well I seriously doubt that the shoes designed with his helped and Skagg are exactly like what the big brand is selling for us mear mortals. :p

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Originally Posted by Skids

Ah - but from what I rememeber reading from his blog, he still felt the need to take a bread knife to the sole of his f-lites...non minimalist enough?

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Thats why we have the F-Lite 195 & X-Talon 190 which are both our new 1 arrow shoes coming.
Then there is the 0 arrow shoes and the minus arrow on there way:eek:

Its about offering choice:)

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Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider

Thats why we have the F-Lite 195 & X-Talon 190 which are both our new 1 arrow shoes coming.
Then there is the 0 arrow shoes and the minus arrow on there way:eek:

Its about offering choice:)

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Minus arrow?!? Does that involve surgical removal of part of the sole of your foot :eek:

minus arrow - does that mean you take some skin off our feet :p:p

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Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider

Thats why we have the F-Lite 195 & X-Talon 190 which are both our new 1 arrow shoes coming.
Then there is the 0 arrow shoes and the minus arrow on there way:eek:

Its about offering choice:)

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Originally Posted by sjedwardz

minus arrow - does that mean you take some skin off our feet :p:p

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I thought nails removing was standard procedure amongst Ultra Runners. And now we're gonna have skin peeling? :p

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Originally Posted by sjedwardz

minus arrow - does that mean you take some skin off our feet :p:p

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Hhhhmmm something like this:eek:........maybe:D

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Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider

Hhhhmmm something like this:eek:........maybe:D

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if only this were possible, genetically engineered fell feet.

studs that re grow and uppers that won't split:D

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Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider

Thats why we have the F-Lite 195 & X-Talon 190 which are both our new 1 arrow shoes coming.
Then there is the 0 arrow shoes and the minus arrow on there way:eek:

Its about offering choice:)

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You can't say stuff like this without giving some details and photos. Fell feet - are they removeable ;)

And I was already getting anxious for the Flite 195 and Xtalon 190...:cool:

I agree with dogrunner. C'mon insider, show us the shoes. My mate keeps trying to get me to do the VFF thing, but, I want to be loyal. Give us something :)

Yes, especially with the Evo out soon...

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Originally Posted by bfluc

Are you doing ball heel ball corectly? Maybe you're overdoing it trying to land on the forefoot?

Try relaxing more and you'll find out that you'll do ball heel ball more easily. Maybe you should try focussing on higher cadence (180 or more), landing under center of gravity and not making noise.

Luc :)

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To be honest, I just aim for the ground with the forefoot and just hope everything follows from there. Given it's natural running, I thought it'd come, well, naturally!:o

Where can I get a more detailed description/demonstration of correct technique? And I s'pose more importantly, how can I check I'm doing it correctly?

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Originally Posted by southernsoftie

To be honest, I just aim for the ground with the forefoot and just hope everything follows from there. Given it's natural running, I thought it'd come, well, naturally!:o

Where can I get a more detailed description/demonstration of correct technique? And I s'pose more importantly, how can I check I'm doing it correctly?

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It's important that you learn correct technique, as simple as it sounds you do have to learn"barefooting"
Its not just a case of going from your big "squidgy" heavily built up shoes to going barefoot or minimalist.......well not unless you want to injure yourself.

Talk to a POSE coach or runner and they will guide you in the right direction.
I spoke to Lakes Runner in Ambleside yesterday and they are really keen on the whole minimalist thing, they have free lecture on POSE.
It would be worth giving them a bell.
http://secure.lakesrunner.com/sports...07.html?p=shop

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Originally Posted by Inov-8 Insider

It's important that you learn correct technique, as simple as it sounds you do have to learn"barefooting"
http://secure.lakesrunner.com/sports...07.html?p=shop

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Couldn't agree more. One would think that you could just throw of your shoes and run "naturally". The problem is that our feet and legs have become so accustomed to wearing heavy shoes, that our body has forgotten how to do it!
The best tips I can give are:

1. Don't try too hard to land on your forefoot/toes, you will probably end up with a stress fracture.
2. Stand-Tall!
3. Push your hips forward
4. High cadence...no really, higher! Quick small steps.
5. Be patient and take your time. Build up very, very slowly.
6. Enjoy :D

I found it very helpful to have a coaching session with a Pose coach. Whilst I am from Scotland I had a session with a great guy called Jonathan in Manchester (Stockport area). I paid about £25 for over an hours session and he was very good. Following the session he responded to a number of emails I sent him in which I asked questions and even now nearly 12 months on I am sure he would quite happily respond to any queries I might have - all free of charge. His email address is [email protected]

You might not fully agree with everything that Pose teaches but I'm sure that if you are keen to change the way you run Jonathan (or any other Pose coach for that matter) will be able to point you in the right direction. He has helped me enormously and I would very much recommend him.

Blimey - this thread has moved on since I was last here!!!!

Just to add my tuppence worth ......

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Originally Posted by southernsoftie

To be honest, I just aim for the ground with the forefoot and just hope everything follows from there. Given it's natural running, I thought it'd come, well, naturally!:o

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This is a common view regarding the 'natural-ness' of fore-foot running.

The truth is if you simply aim to run on the forefoot without looking at your form as a whole, you are likely to hurt yourself.
Reach for a forefoot landing in front of you and you WILL knacker your calf/achilles/plantar fascia complex

Nature is an unforgiving mistress, and we have to interact with her in the way SHE demands.:D

southernsoftie,

I would try what Terry is writing. I agree with you we should not overthink it.

You'll be able to see descent barefoot running form here:

The Barefoot Professor: by Nature Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jrnj-7YKZE

There is a good description of biomechanic here:

Biomechanical Differences Between Different Foot Strikes

http://www.barefootrunning.fas.harva...ootStrike.html

You should read all the stuff published on the website starting at the home page here:

Biomechanics of Foot Strikes & Applications to Running Barefoot or in Minimal Footwear

http://www.barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/index.html

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Originally Posted by Terry the Tortoise

Couldn't agree more. One would think that you could just throw of your shoes and run "naturally". The problem is that our feet and legs have become so accustomed to wearing heavy shoes, that our body has forgotten how to do it!
The best tips I can give are:

1. Don't try too hard to land on your forefoot/toes, you will probably end up with a stress fracture.
2. Stand-Tall!
3. Push your hips forward
4. High cadence...no really, higher! Quick small steps.
5. Be patient and take your time. Build up very, very slowly.
6. Enjoy :D

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Originally Posted by eLBee!

Blimey - this thread has moved on since I was last here!!!!
Just to add my tuppence worth .....

This is a common view regarding the 'natural-ness' of fore-foot running.

The truth is if you simply aim to run on the forefoot without looking at your form as a whole, you are likely to hurt yourself.
Reach for a forefoot landing in front of you and you WILL knacker your calf/achilles/plantar fascia complex

Nature is an unforgiving mistress, and we have to interact with her in the way SHE demands.:D

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Its worth noting that Mr elBee is a POSE coach and a very experienced runner (last year he ran 10 marathons in 10 days:eek:)

Thanks a lot peeps. Lots of areas to research there. Think my approach now will be to leave the new style (as per Terry the Tortoise's description, and not my half-arsed approach:D) to runs of 3mi or less for the time being, relying on my usual gallumpfing stride for anything else. I'll look up that Manchester POSE coach and with that and a bit of practice will hopefully be able to get the hang of it and up the mileage.

Cheers all
:)

That sounds like a good idea southernsoftie as terrys' post made a lot of sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Herakles

That sounds like a good idea southernsoftie as terrys' post made a lot of sense to me.

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Yeah, but methinks it'll be easier to read than apply!:D:o

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Originally Posted by southernsoftie

I'll look up that Manchester POSE coach and with that and a bit of practice will hopefully be able to get the hang of it and up the mileage.

Cheers all
:)

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Jon is an excellent coach. I'm heading over to his in March to help out at a coaching weekend that he's organising

Pose training is that where you learn to vogue ?.

Something like that ;)

Madonna, Madonna,Madonna.

...... and the thread entered the Twiglet Zone..!!!

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Originally Posted by southernsoftie

Thanks a lot peeps. Lots of areas to research there. Think my approach now will be to leave the new style (as per Terry the Tortoise's description, and not my half-arsed approach:D) to runs of 3mi or less for the time being, relying on my usual gallumpfing stride for anything else. I'll look up that Manchester POSE coach and with that and a bit of practice will hopefully be able to get the hang of it and up the mileage.

Cheers all
:)

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Would Southernsoftie, or anyone else fancy the idea of sharing a session with the Pose coach? Or am I being too tight fisted? It's just I have to put any running expenses past SWMBO!!

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Shuffler

Would Southernsoftie, or anyone else fancy the idea of sharing a session with the Pose coach? Or am I being too tight fisted? It's just I have to put any running expenses past SWMBO!!

Cheers

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Don't see why not. I'm in the same boat. Question is, would a coach be willing to do that, and would we be able to make it at the same time?

I arranged to meet Jon at a park in Stockport just off the A6 and we had the lesson there. Amongst other things he filmed the way I ran and then after he had told me how to run the 'pose' way (which to me makes sense) he then filmed me again so that I could see the difference. He showed me some exercises that I could practise at home (before I went to see him I had already been doing some of them - found them on Youtube). Following the session he answered my (many) emails.

By all means email him and see what he says about a joint session.

If you want to read a good guide to barefoot running follow this link.

http://barefootrunninguniversity.com/howtostart.html

Its good. According to this most of us do RSR, which stands for Reduced Shoe Running. Bloody purists.

I definitely think this is the way to go and of course you modify your footwear depending on what surface because bare feet and scree doesn't bare thinking about.

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Originally Posted by Herakles

I definitely think this is the way to go and of course you modify your footwear depending on what surface because bare feet and scree doesn't bare thinking about.

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Our take on it :
http://www.inov-8.com/News-Detail.asp?L=26&NID=342

Still too cold for me to barefoot.

pose
Verb; Attempting to look like the models in the Inov8 catalogue to impress members of the opposite gender.:cool:

Usually unsucessful with posee looking like a sweaty, gurnning fool.:o