Down at the minute, dealing with solicitors and work is taking it's toll.
Not sleeping, worrying, feeling down.
Could do with an end to it all.
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Down at the minute, dealing with solicitors and work is taking it's toll.
Not sleeping, worrying, feeling down.
Could do with an end to it all.
Sorry to hear that, Stagger.
I can't offer any solutions, I'm afraid, but I can empathise.
Thanks Leaf.
I have gone to Turkey for R&R.
More counselling to come but slowly making progress.
How are you Leaf?
A bit like Stagger on 14th July minus the bit about solicitors.
Really appreciate you asking, though, DT. Thanks.
Tell me, though, someone - does anyone actually Enjoy life? Or does everyone find it hard going and wish there was an easy exit door?
Sorry Leaf, I should have asked too.
We get so low that we struggle to see who is around us.
Have you been to a counsellor for therapy?
Hang in there Trevor, there is light at the end of the tunnel and your friends will always be there for you.
You too Leaf, hope it all works out for you.
Enjoyment is an abstract concept, it's a story. Life is an existence which gives us sensory input, whether or not this input is enjoyable is the result of a story being imposed on it. I don't like the phrase "life is what you make of it" because it is frequently used by those seeking to attack the negative rather than foster the positive; however i do like the phrase, "you create your own reality", because you do. You create it on a quantum level when The Observer Effect causes Field energy to become matter, and you create it by imposing the mental notion of causality on a world of observable effects. Creation is life-giving in every sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf
The mind is so, so powerful, and it will run riot if you let it. It will manifest its beliefs as physical problems in the body, and in my experience Hay Fever is a very good example of this. If you allow your mind the freedom to find meaning where none need exist you will soon be imposing causality on anything and everything- 'that man cycles on the pavement because he doesn't respect pedestrians' is one i was up against just yesterday. Stress, or lack of Enjoyment, is always the product of a story, an uninvestigated belief system.
Somewhere in your mind, Leaf, there is an underlying foundational belief system that is operating freely and unchallenged, and is creating stories based on sensory input which your mind is then attatching to as being true. There is no harm in a thought unless you attach to it as if it were true. To attach to a thought as if it were true happens without your knowledge, it happens in your subconscious mind, which is 20 times more powerful that your conscious mind and processes data at 40 million Bits/Sec. These story creating systems are often built out of the results of childhood trauma or bad programming during childhood. The subconscious mind thinks literally, it doesn't rationalise sensory input, the conscious mind takes what the subconscious thinks and generates abstract concepts such as enjoyment or failure. Unlike the subconscious, the conscious is time-bound and is able to look back at past experience and forward to attempt to predict future events.
An abstract concept such as the requirement for an easy exit from life is an example of a fairly complex and time-bound calculation performed by the conscious mind based on stimuli recieved from the subconscious which has been modulated or dealt with in a self-defeating manner. A manner, the source of which, it is now your task to uncover. Things don't happen for no reason, you are in this position to investigate your own thought patterns and correct the origin of a purely psychological dysfunction; a dysfunction which is responsible for the illusion of failure.
It's my belief that depression arises out of failure to handle the energy level of Fear. Fear in me which arises out of loss of meaning, meaning which i have given something that i shouldn't have and that is now gone. What is the fear and what is the meaning? You can respond to fear by elevating to the level of Desire, where you strive to experience something again and go looking for it; or you can descend to the level of Grief where failure takes over, and failure leads inexorably to anger, anger usually at yourself.
Think of yourself as Frodo Baggins. A task has been appointed to you, appointed to you by your higher self- the Superconscious Mind. It knows everything and sees the biggest of pictures, it rings alarm bells using stress and depression to draw the lower levels of your consciousness to the fact that something is seriously wrong. Your task is to uncover the illusionist responsible for the illusion, the power to do this lies within you and nobody but you can accomplish the task. Find out why your mind modulates sensory input the way it does. Find the trauma.
I do enjoy life, Leaf. But then I always have. Yes there have been some rough times, its inevitable. And I,m quite sure that there are rough times to come. But on balance, I have, I do and I hope I can continue to enjoy life. How this is the case is impossible to say. Mr Brightside has got lots of detail for you. But I guess we are all different and I think I am very fortunate that I have enjoyment. I will not waste it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf
I am another that enjoys life even the tough times are ok (just another fact of life really).
What I will say though is that I love a challenge and on the whole my life is probably the biggest challenge I have ever faced, and hopefully I will continue facing the challenge positively whatever life throws at me.
I know that possibly sounds to simplistic but as said by wheeze we are all different.
Stay positive and good Luck folks.,
On reflection my other post might not help you a great deal. What's true for me is not necessarily true for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf
I actually don't enjoy my life. I've genuinely forgotten what it means and feels like to experience long-term enjoyment. I have fleeting moments when something happens, and some moments when nothing happens, moments when i'm sat on a bench or a rock in the middle of nowhere and i just see a mouse or something.
Why i'm still alive i don't know, but what i do know is that i am still alive for a reason. It has to be this way because the universe is based on the principle of economy. The only easy exit door is suicide; i've got no dependants and little reason to keep turning away from it, except for the fact i know the compulsions i feel are an illusion.
I just keep going, Leaf. I try to understand that i'm in this position for a reason, a reason which as yet is unclear. I use all the tools i've got (box breathing, The Work, EFT, Psych-K, mindfulness) to release self-defeating behaviour from my mind, and await moments of clarity.
I've been trying to think of something helpful to say about this; whole books have been written to address these questions!Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf
The short answer is that no-one enjoys life all the time; we all have ups and downs. But it is very important to avoid comparing oneself to other people [Jim seems much happier than me, Susan is much more successful than me, etc]; or if you must make comparisons, than compare yourself to the citizens of Syria or North Korea.
The ideal was set down in a letter written by a bloke in a prison cell nearly 2000 years ago:
"I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation . . ." *
Easier said than done! Contentment comes from inside, which brings us back to: how to cope with Depression. Mr B's earlier post (on 30/07) contains a lot of good advice, but what concerns me is that his project is dealing with depression by oneself. This seems to me like trying to pull yourself out of a Pennine peat bog by yourself when you are up to your thighs in the sticky black stuff. You need help! This can be from friends, but you probably also need professional help. Like Mr B, my instinct is to avoid the use of drugs; the counter-argument is that if the depression is due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, a chemical problem demands a chemical solution. [The difficulty with this is that our chemical solutions are too crude, and have unwanted side-effects.]
Anyway, I hope that all of you suffering from depression do find some long-term relief. It really is a horrible illness.
* Philippians 4:12
Well, I feel I have just exorcised a demon.
Having travelled to the top of a 2k mountain about 7yr ago, I had been scared �� to death. Vowing never to return.��
I did return to day and with a great calming influence by my side, achieved it without any problems.
She really helped me and taught me to face fear head on to achieve a positive outcome.
Big lesson learned and the views were stunning.
Hope you all can take the small positives out of something so trivial ��
Nice one Trevor - I'm so pleased to hear something positive from you. Keep it up, and hope to see you soon.
Cheers Geoff. It's feels better to be thinking more positive.
Small steps, for bigger results.
Should be back down your way in 2018 when I get started running again.
That is not trivial Stagger! That is a huge achievement with how you have been feeling these past few months. Good to hear. Stepping forwards :-)
Better thoughts are starting to appear im my head.
I just need to work with them.
The holiday helps to empty the stress and worry.
Hopefully it will continue when real life and work resumes.
Thanks for all your support and keep posting if you are suffering.
The communication between us all helps us all��
The snag with this approach is that it places the source of your healing outside of yourself. One of the goal statements i balance for regularly is, "i have the power to create my own reality", and i do create it- every waking moment. Depression for me is now more of an illusion than an illness.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonykay
This is great if you do actually "have the power to create your own reality". But as you yourself said in an earlier post, "What's true for me is not necessarily true for you." For some people, having a source of healing outside of themselves may be just what they need.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brightside
Interesting points.
I find I don't have any power or will to succeed at anything.
Can't stop drinking, can't lose weight, can't get fit.
Just survive by what meal is next.
I try battling problem's one at a time or I bury my head till it goes away.
Similar feelings as to why I am here go around my head.
My physiotherapist is very supportive and we work on each problem until a solution is achieved.
That and the max dosage of mediation keeps me going.
Hopefully you are all progressing or getting the right help to do so.
All the best ��
Stagger
If I have the power to create my own reality then this depression is all my fault...
...which it probably is
but creating a better reality seems utterly impossible.
Hang on in there, Stagger. One little step at a time.
And then a cup of tea.
As Mr B has exposed, nothing is impossible with the power of positive thought. But the trick, of course, is to generate those positive thoughts and see them through to reality.
Trouble is, there is no 'one size fits all' solution to this. I try to think 'what if it was me?'
I do know that, for me, when a difficult or seemingly impossible goal is out there, it really helps to write down what that goal is and then write down how I think I can get there and, on the other side, what is getting in the way. By doing this, I crystallize those factors into small, discrete packages that can be dealt with in turn rather than worrying about the big stretch to the goal. Visualisation really helps, for me at least.
This quite accurately represents where recovery splits into two possible pathways; mainstream or alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonykay
Leaf, can you be absolutely sure that blaming yourself is the right thing to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf
Certainly not. You need to find a middle way between, on the one hand, thinking of yourself as a victim who can't do anything to help yourself, and on the other hand, blaming yourself for not having the willpower to sort out all of your problems. Wheeze and Mr B have come up with some useful ideas that you can try, but don't condemn yourself if they don't work perfectly when you try them.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brightside
I'm with you Leaf, the depression takes away all my power, strength and motivation. Everything is a massive headache and effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf
My problems are reliant on other parties at work and around me, who appear to be making the pain greater.
I can't solve them no matter what I do and things just keep stacking up behind.
Having just come back from holiday, I ate sensible and while the moment is here I am attempting to carry that on. The 2 weeks outside real life did me a lot of good.
But coming back is very hard work.
Dig in Leaf and if you want a chat just PM me��
depression takes away all my power, strength and motivation. Everything is a massive headache and effort is a very good definition of the illness. It sums things up eloquently
I know that Leaf's situation is by no means her fault, far from it; but on the other hand is it not good to 'take ownership' of the situations that you find yourself in, rather than always laying the blame at someone else's feet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonykay
This morning I was planning on not seeing out the end of the day.
This afternoon I was running the fell race at Arncliffe gala.
Tomorrow morning I will have to face another day.
Anxiety and depression is the hardest challenge I have ever been confronted with.
Two books I've been recommended...
https://thinkingaboutsuicide.org
https://www.eckharttolle.com/books/now/
I'm here for you mate, ant time, just PM me.
You have over come the biggest hurdle by opening up to people who care.
This thread has various people suffering in a multitude of ways alone with some clever professional's who put excellent points across.
One of the main things is communication, it takes a piece of baggage from you and you see how others deal with it.
Have you got any support in place to help you? If so when is your next appointment?
In a fell race the spectators will shout "dig in lad" as you struggle up a steep climb.
This is almost vertical but with your inner strength and peoples encouragement you will summit.
DIG IN LAD��
"I know that Leaf's situation is by no means her fault, far from it; but on the other hand is it not good to 'take ownership' of the situations that you find yourself in, rather than always laying the blame at someone else's feet?"
I'm certainly not blaming anyone else.
Well said, Stagger.
I.m sobered by the number of fellow forumites who have 'come out' as labouring under the curse of depression.
I'm sorry, bewildered and not a little blind sided by the number of you who are 'suffering'
I always thought that fell running would be populated by the wild, self confident, strong and indomitable spirits of popular myth.
But, like life, reality does not match imagination.
Strength to you all. Chin up, steely gaze and girded loin.
And may I leave you on this good evening with a simple treasured memory from my youngest daughter who we dragged up Snowdon when she was just four. As we toiled our way across the ridge from Crib Y ddysgyl to Yr Wyddfa she offered the following observation....'Daddy, aren't mountains Strong?"
I've never forgotten such am eloquent summation of what must have seemed like a massive challenge to someone so little. She was not fazed or worried, just respectful of the enormity of the task she had taken on. The reason for recounting this is to encourage you all to see your own challenges as not insurmountable, just 'strong'. But, with the help of others, quite defeatable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheeze
It does seem surprising... but is it really...?
I've always been of the opinion that there are two types of people who run on the fells (not wanting to categorise everyone).... there's those who simply just love the mountains, and those who feel the need to test themselves to the absolute limit. Why do we feel the need to test ourselves? Is it because we often feel we have to prove our worth...?
As someone who has suffered "problems" (I wouldn't go as far as to compare myself to some of the situations in this thread).... when I look honestly at why I run in the mountains, I probably lie somewhere in between the two types. Certainly having people tell me that what I am about to attempt is "too much" is the biggest motivator for me, and quite often riles me up a bit. What that actually says about my personality or mental state, who knows.... I certainly don't.
Sorry for the ramblings... probably in no way relevant to most people...
It's difficult to quantify Travs.
Yes its an illness.
Brought on by a multitude of reason's or circumstances.
The battle is with ones self and life.
If the strength and motivation is there we get out. If not we hide from the world.
The battle goes on.
What about yourself? Can you be absolutely sure that blaming yourself is the right thing to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf
Trev, i have to stress that the battle is only with ones self. The battle with life, as we see it, is really only a battle with our perception of life. It's one of the biggest magic tricks currently cursing western cultures; the idea that life's processes and events are stressful and that they cause us stress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
Ideas like that now tend to dissolve in my mind because i have The Work now working autonomously, but let's walk it through anyway.
Statement: "Life and other people are the cause of my stress". (I've expanded it slightly)
Q1, is it true? Yes, it feels like this day to day
Q2, can i be absolutely sure it's true? If i scrape my nails down a chalkboard in front of a room full of people, some will wince, some will grimace, some may protest wildly; and some will simply sit there wondering what the fuss is about. One man's feast is another man's famine. People's reactions will be down to how their brain deals with the stimulus. Transferring this principle across, how can i know my stress isn't down to how my own brain is dealing with the situations i face? I think the answer is no, i can't be absolutely sure.
Q3, how do i feel then i think this thought? Effing powerless! Like a victim of the world. I feel like i'm under assault from multiple angles, how am i going to win here? I feel abandoned by god and by life, i lash out in defence and get nowhere. How can i end this struggle!!
Intermediate question, can i see a reason to drop this belief? Yes! Christ...who wants to live like that? Spending every day suffering?
Q4, who would i be without this thought? Free of the chains of stress, and in a position to calmly question other long-held beliefs that may be hurting me. I hate feeling this way every day over and over again, without my attatchment to this belief i can begin to approach a state of neutrality and perhaps even start to enjoy my life again.
Intermediate question, can i see a stress-free reason to hold onto this belief? I find it very difficult to let go of things sometimes, i don't know why, but i just do. It's like i'm in love with my own flipping depression, and it's hard to live this way. I want to hold onto this belief, but there is no stress free way to do so. There are no stress-free reasons to keep thinking the way i do.
Turn the statement around and project it inwardly instead of outwardly:
"My outlook on life and myself are the cause of my stress"
Reflect on the turnaround. Keep reflecting for at least 5mins.
...and yes, the battle goes on, for me too, every day.
Thanks for that Luke.
I disagree with some of it and don't understand other bits.
But praise the lord if it works for you ��
Anyone heard from Wharfy lately?
I would be interested to know how that "battle" manifests itself; is it kept in the mind, or does it cause physical symptons within the body?Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brightside
This is my starting point - my 'depression' or whatever it is, is my fault. If I could think differently I'd probably cope much better. But despite many attempts from different angles I haven't managed it yet. Besides which, it's not just the way I think, or what I think about - it's that overwhelming sense of failure, futility and deep weariness with life. It goes beyond mere 'thinking'.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brightside