:D Barefoot Running

The years from 1-12 are the key ones when it comes to the development and mechanics of the 26 muscles of the foot, including the spring like muscles and tendons that make up the foot arch. If you dont believe me, go to Kenya. After this I think there is a limit to the amount of spring you can generate from the foot arch. As soon as you encapusulate and cushion your foot for all these early years the mechanics are pretty much set and this foot arch in particular becomes rigid.

Based on this please dont take the barefoot thing too literally and waste all your hard earned pennies on the rip off minimal trainer industry.

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Originally Posted by Roy Scott

The years from 1-12 are the key ones when it comes to the development and mechanics of the 26 muscles of the foot, including the spring like muscles and tendons that make up the foot arch. If you dont believe me, go to Kenya. After this I think there is a limit to the amount of spring you can generate from the foot arch. As soon as you encapusulate and cushion your foot for all these early years the mechanics are pretty much set and this foot arch in particular becomes rigid.

Based on this please dont take the barefoot thing too literally and waste all your hard earned pennies on the rip off minimal trainer industry.

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valid point and well said as it's true.

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Originally Posted by Roy Scott

The years from 1-12 are the key ones when it comes to the development and mechanics of the 26 muscles of the foot, including the spring like muscles and tendons that make up the foot arch. If you dont believe me, go to Kenya. After this I think there is a limit to the amount of spring you can generate from the foot arch. As soon as you encapusulate and cushion your foot for all these early years the mechanics are pretty much set and this foot arch in particular becomes rigid.

Based on this please dont take the barefoot thing too literally and waste all your hard earned pennies on the rip off minimal trainer industry.

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Strongly disagree with your post. Where is the evidence - scientific peer reviewed, that states that your foot arch can't re-develop after the age of 12? Where did you get this little factoid from anyway? I don't think you can make statements like this without backing them up with some very good studies other than the anecdotal "if you don't believe me got to kenya"

It beggars belief that people who have experienced strength gains in their legs, through a sport such as fell running, would not be open to the thought that maybe, just maybe the foot can be strengthened as well.

Why do we need to generate spring from our foot arch? I thought that the arch was part of the cushioning system, its the achillies tendon where you want your spring, surely. Of course most people are used to day to day foot wear with a higher heel to toe, and running shoes that are the same and will have a shortened and ineffective achilles as a result.

Why do you think that the foot arch can't become more flexible with rehab exercise such as barefoot running? Have you tried it for yourself?

From a personal perspective I will never go back to a running shoe that isn't flat, or close to flat (zero differential from forefoot to heel) I've got 2 years of experience running minimalist (and barefoot at times) over rough trails, fells and mountains, with an ultra race under my belt using minimalist shoes. That's 2 years of injury free running, something that I haven't experienced since I started running competitively.

I feel that the minimalist shoe industry is not a rip off - it is a result of the many peer review studies in to barefoot biomechanics, the vast majority of minimal runners require a shoe that gives them just the right amount of protection and traction for the various terrains that they run on, the development of minimal shoes costs money, and its a niche market at the moment so they will be expensive. Interestingly, most minimal shoes seem to last a lot longer than normal shoes; I'm still on my first pair of vibrams, used for at least 5 miles each week, on forest track trail and malvern granite, and they're still looking good after almost 2 years.

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Originally Posted by Penguin

link not working..

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Try again:

http://www.irunfar.com/2011/01/best-...orsm-2010.html

Here in that blog post there is an animated GIF of the evolution of my foot over 3 years

http://www.adventureinprogress.com/lucs-barefoot-transformation
http://www.adventureinprogress.com/l...transformation

would we say after looking at that picrture that the canMt redevelop after the age of 12?

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Originally Posted by Twister

Strongly disagree with your post. Where is the evidence - scientific peer reviewed, that states that your foot arch can't re-develop after the age of 12? Where did you get this little factoid from anyway? I don't think you can make statements like this without backing them up with some very good studies other than the anecdotal "if you don't believe me got to kenya"

It beggars belief that people who have experienced strength gains in their legs, through a sport such as fell running, would not be open to the thought that maybe, just maybe the foot can be strengthened as well.

Why do we need to generate spring from our foot arch? I thought that the arch was part of the cushioning system, its the achillies tendon where you want your spring, surely. Of course most people are used to day to day foot wear with a higher heel to toe, and running shoes that are the same and will have a shortened and ineffective achilles as a result.

Why do you think that the foot arch can't become more flexible with rehab exercise such as barefoot running? Have you tried it for yourself?

[...]

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Originally Posted by Roy Scott

The years from 1-12 are the key ones when it comes to the development and mechanics of the 26 muscles of the foot, including the spring like muscles and tendons that make up the foot arch. If you dont believe me, go to Kenya. After this I think there is a limit to the amount of spring you can generate from the foot arch. As soon as you encapusulate and cushion your foot for all these early years the mechanics are pretty much set and this foot arch in particular becomes rigid.

Based on this please dont take the barefoot thing too literally and waste all your hard earned pennies on the rip off minimal trainer industry.

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Why should we go to Kenya? :confused:

Are you suggesting that the 'minimal trainer industry' is a rip-off, but other areas of the sports footwear market aren't?

Having started running barefoot and in minimal footwaer at the age of 42 I can say for sure there are benefits to be had. I have been plagued with lower leg problems for over 20 years. Since I started barefooting I have had none of these problems. My feet are definately stronger as well. As for the rip off minimal footwear industry, why not try running with no shoes on, that is pretty cheap. If you are running on an even surface, and your feet have not toughened up enough yet to run barefoot fulltime, or it is too cold, try a pair of Tesco beach shoes, £5 a pair. For rough stuff I favour VFF Flow treks,f lite 195s or x talon 190s.
I wish people wouldn't knock things they have not tried properly, try opening your minds, you may find something that will make life better!

First run out in my VFF I got for Christmas. Really enjoyed the run (4 miles) only got slightly sore calves, everything else feels fine. Another 4 on Thursday I think.

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Originally Posted by Twister

Strongly disagree with your post. Where is the evidence - scientific peer reviewed, that states that your foot arch can't re-develop after the age of 12? Where did you get this little factoid from anyway? I don't think you can make statements like this without backing them up with some very good studies other than the anecdotal "if you don't believe me got to kenya"

It beggars belief that people who have experienced strength gains in their legs, through a sport such as fell running, would not be open to the thought that maybe, just maybe the foot can be strengthened as well.

Why do we need to generate spring from our foot arch? I thought that the arch was part of the cushioning system, its the achillies tendon where you want your spring, surely. Of course most people are used to day to day foot wear with a higher heel to toe, and running shoes that are the same and will have a shortened and ineffective achilles as a result.

Why do you think that the foot arch can't become more flexible with rehab exercise such as barefoot running? Have you tried it for yourself?

From a personal perspective I will never go back to a running shoe that isn't flat, or close to flat (zero differential from forefoot to heel) I've got 2 years of experience running minimalist (and barefoot at times) over rough trails, fells and mountains, with an ultra race under my belt using minimalist shoes. That's 2 years of injury free running, something that I haven't experienced since I started running competitively.

I feel that the minimalist shoe industry is not a rip off - it is a result of the many peer review studies in to barefoot biomechanics, the vast majority of minimal runners require a shoe that gives them just the right amount of protection and traction for the various terrains that they run on, the development of minimal shoes costs money, and its a niche market at the moment so they will be expensive. Interestingly, most minimal shoes seem to last a lot longer than normal shoes; I'm still on my first pair of vibrams, used for at least 5 miles each week, on forest track trail and malvern granite, and they're still looking good after almost 2 years.

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Factoid, I love it.
Before you jump up and down on this post with your fingers in your ears, maybe I should make my position absolutely clear. I do not believe in locking the foot away and preventing the muscles and the tendons of the foot from being active during running gait. I am sure that this mal practice actually inhibits and in some cases injures the athlete; so we do have some common territory.

However you can only go so far and alot on this thread are giving the impression that less is better and that is simply wrong and dangerous. I tried barefoot running and got injured despite a gradual reduction in support, culminating in the inov8 Flite 220's with minimal heel differential. My foot arch simply could not cope. I work with 100's of runners and for every 1 athlete that gets on with it there are 9 that dont and end up injured. But I am just one person, and I dont expect a single case study should be the be all and end all of how effective it is, you have to open your mind a little.

Now you asked for some research to back up my claim. There is masses of it out there but this is particularly good.

Footprint analysis during the growth period.
[My paper] J B Volpon
Division of Orthopaedics and Traumatology, University of São Paulo, Ribeirão Preto School of Medicine, Brazil.
Static footprints were obtained from 672 healthy white subjects ranging in age from newborn to 15 years. The length of the footprint was measured and the medial longitudinal arch was evaluated. The findings showed that the feet grew most rapidly up to 3 years of age. From age 3 onward, the feet maintained an almost constant growth rate, which was the same for both sexes until age 12 years, when girls' feet stopped growing, but boys' feet exhibited further growth. From birth up to 2 years of age, there was a higher incidence of flat feet. Rapid progression of plantar arch development was observed between 2 and 6 years of age.

Now as you can see the arch is set during early years. If you have not got an efficient, flexible arch during early years you are stuck with it. You can certainly strengthen the muscles and tendons around the area, but you can do little about the arch size and elasticity. You may be lucky and you may be one of these, but stick the majority in Vibrams and you are on the fast track to injury. Primal patterning is not just restricted to foot archs, but other bodily paramenters. I am sure you are aware that optimal bone denisity is governed by diet and lifestyle during early years. You can slow the decline, but you can do little about the optimal density levels.

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

Why should we go to Kenya? :confused:

Are you suggesting that the 'minimal trainer industry' is a rip-off, but other areas of the sports footwear market aren't?

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You should go there because you will see thousands of kids that can not afford shoes that stunt foot arch development. Then if you stick around you will also see them, funds and opportunities permitting, develop into efficient runners that grace the very ground they run on.

Oh and before you ask, I have been there and seen it.

Of course I accept that other areas of the footwear market are a rip off. However for the amount of material and manufacturing required to make a pair of Vibrams for example, its a new level of ripping people off and tearing the a** out of your hard earned money. They are essentialy socks with a minimal sole.

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Originally Posted by bfluc

Here in that blog post there is an animated GIF of the evolution of my foot over 3 years

http://www.adventureinprogress.com/l...transformation
http://www.adventureinprogress.com/l...transformation

would we say after looking at that picrture that the canMt redevelop after the age of 12?

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His muscles and tendons have undergone hypertrophy and it is clearly working for him. This does not contradict my view at all. Read above.

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Originally Posted by Twister

Why do we need to generate spring from our foot arch? I thought that the arch was part of the cushioning system, its the achillies tendon where you want your spring, surely.

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Thats because you dont understand biomechanics. The achillies is a lever yes, but due to the loading of the arch and F = ma, (Newton’s 2nd Law) you get a reversal of this force during the propulsion.

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Originally Posted by Roy Scott

His muscles and tendons have undergone hypertrophy and it is clearly working for him. This does not contradict my view at all. Read above.

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The "he" is someone I know very well because it is me. Would have you guessed that the hypertropy you're describing was how my feet were less than 5 months prior to crossing the line of my 3rd marathon. No health specialists I have seen in the past told me that I had feet that had undergone atrophy and neither was I told by one of them that my feet are now in a state of hypertrophy. Even me while while having exchanges in a thread at the period of time when I took the picture of my feet 3 years after starting transitioning to barefooting running (not full time barefooting because I live in the Crazy Canucks land where winter means dealing with temp way below 0 degress Celsius; minus 20-30 ; with % humidity sometimes over 90%) I was writing that the change wasn't so dramatic until someone from the forum made the animated GIF with the 2 pictures I had posted on the WEB. The first time I saw it I thought that the scale of the 2 pictures of the animated GIF wasn't right. When I took a closer look at the heel I saw that scale was right because the heel proportions are the same on the 2 pics.

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Originally Posted by Roy Scott

Thats because you dont understand biomechanics. The achillies is a lever yes, but due to the loading of the arch and F = ma, (Newton’s 2nd Law) you get a reversal of this force during the propulsion.

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May I suggest that you take the time to read what Dr Lieberman has published? http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~skeleton/PDFList.html

maybe this thing from his last study might be helpfull? Biomechanical Differences Between Different Foot Strikes

or maybe this?
Running Before The Modern Shoe

Good read! :coollarge:

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Originally Posted by Roy Scott

[...]Of course I accept that other areas of the footwear market are a rip off. However for the amount of material and manufacturing required to make a pair of Vibrams for example, its a new level of ripping people off and tearing the a** out of your hard earned money. They are essentialy socks with a minimal sole.

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Can we write that this is essentially how ***you see*** VFF? :rolleyes:

I wonder why standard trainers shoes that are leaving the foot in a state ***I*** would describe as atrophy wouldn't be a big time rip off as VFFs are?

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Atrophy is the partial or complete wasting away of a part of the body. Causes of atrophy include mutations (which can destroy the gene to build up the organ), poor nourishment, poor circulation, loss of hormonal support, loss of nerve supply to the target organ, disuse or lack of exercise or disease intrinsic to the tissue itself

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I look at my old good trainers I was using when I trained for my 1st and see that they were made in China (the only thing I miss about those is that when I was training in it I had not to deal with lotta comments in the not virtual life or replies on forum's that are basically relying on logical fallacies in order to prove that I must be wrong).

Even my Mizuno's and Asics' racer flats are made in China. Would you say that the manufacturing costs are playing a large role in the cost that they selling it to us? Would you say that the manufacturing cost of most of the outdoor gear we're using is close to the suggested retail price? :confused:

Just seen this on the Accelerate website

http://www.accelerateuk.com/magazine...ning-yes-or-no

Bare Foot running

For the first time in 2011 Accelerate have become involved in the Sheffield Adventure Film Festival (ShAFF) and in February are to host an 'Expert Running Night'. Taking place at the Showroom Sheffield on the February the 11th, Accelerate with help from Industry leaders will be looking at Natural Running, so what's all the fuss about and what will we be asking?

So Should you throw away your running shoes and go Bare Foot?

The running shoe market is a worldwide billion £ industry and in the last few years has been rocked by claims that the modern day running shoe is in fact bad for you. The claims have been around formany years but dramatically highlighted since the publication of the book ‘Born to Run’, which examines a Mexican tribe who run without modern shoes, using,only what can be described, as sandals. Not unlike the Kenyans and the Ethiopians, of which many a runner has gone on to become a household name.

Educational Institutions across the globe, running enthusiasts and sports scientists are starting to produce more and more studies that demonstrate that over engineered running shoes are actually causing more problems than they solve. Some of the other evidence is anecdotal, others from those that have tried hi-tec footwear and then gone back to basics, including running barefoot. Yet, it would appear there must be some weight to these arguments as leading brands of specialised running shoes are beginning to look at their ranges and introduce shoes that offer less structure and more minimalism. Simply, less is more.

For one British manufacturer this is nothing new. Inov-8, based near Durham have for many years been advocating the virtues of ‘natural running’ for the fell athlete. In fact you could argue this has always been the case, since the beginning of early fell-shoemanufacture. Original fell shoes offered foot protection from the ground, grip and if you were lucky a little comfort! Inov-8 have revolutionised fell running shoes, winning many design awards along the way. So the next step in the evolution for Inov-8is a more natural shoe for road runners. Minimalist shoes, as they are now, in general, being called, are on there way.

Infact for leading specialist and global manufacturer Saucony, they are already here. Your average running shoes normally weigh in at a good 350 grams, whilst the new minimalist offering is a mere, 220 grams with plans to drop yet moreweight. So can this type of shoe, which inthe past so many have said should be left to the elite and racing whippets ofthe World, be of benefit to the ordinary runner?

Simply these shoes are all designed to allow the body to be more natural whilst running, to become stronger and if the research and claims of the pundits is correct to ultimately reduce injury. Yet since when has running on three foot of tarmac, rubble and crushed stone been,well, ‘natural’? Surely we need technical running shoes to help us survive the impact and resultingstresses? If we are running off-road,what about all those sharp rocks and the damage we will cause to ourselves hurtling down a hillside? So how is a minimalist shoe different and is there benefit?

These questions and more will be raised at a Running Expert Night on the 11th February. Part of the Sheffield Adventure Film Festival, the evening will be hosted by leading Sheffield based running Store, Accelerate. Guest speakers will include leading Bio Mechanist Colin Papworth, Saucony’s Paul Heywood and Key-speaker Matt Brown, part of thedesign team at Inov-8. The pro’s and cons of barefoot and minimalist running will be explored along with why the manufactures have taken the plunge. Is it research based or just hype and following the herd?

Date:Friday 11th February, 8pm.

Venue: The Showroom, Sheffield, Showroom 4.

Change to the guest speaker line-up... yours truly will now be on stage for a brief appearance... gulp!

First run in the Inov8 ‘Bare-Grips’ – Absolutely fantastic…
First impressions – a snug yet roomy ‘where it counts’ fit, superb terrain sensitivity yet with excellent foreign object protection, the grip was beyond belief and the overall feeling of ‘running free’ without compare!
If you are a committed minimal shoe fell runner then this could well be the best shoe you have ever worn. If you are someone who has started on the path of minimal shoe fell running and are gradually reducing the cushioning on your shoes then this is the shoe to aim for.
Time will tell if the superb grip holds up – if it does then yes the Inov8 Bare-Grip 200 is worth the extra money, well for me and my running anyway!
Brilliant 

(A few) Japanese monks run for 1000 days wearing home-made straw sandals. More HERE.

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Originally Posted by Alphin

First run in the Inov8 ‘Bare-Grips’ – Absolutely fantastic…
First impressions – a snug yet roomy ‘where it counts’ fit, superb terrain sensitivity yet with excellent foreign object protection, the grip was beyond belief and the overall feeling of ‘running free’ without compare!
If you are a committed minimal shoe fell runner then this could well be the best shoe you have ever worn. If you are someone who has started on the path of minimal shoe fell running and are gradually reducing the cushioning on your shoes then this is the shoe to aim for.
Time will tell if the superb grip holds up – if it does then yes the Inov8 Bare-Grip 200 is worth the extra money, well for me and my running anyway!
Brilliant 

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Where and how? I thought they werent out until March. Have I missed something as I have been awaiting their arrival with great excitement which would appear to be justified from your post.

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Originally Posted by Alphin

First run in the Inov8 ‘Bare-Grips’ – Absolutely fantastic…
First impressions – a snug yet roomy ‘where it counts’ fit, superb terrain sensitivity yet with excellent foreign object protection, the grip was beyond belief and the overall feeling of ‘running free’ without compare!
If you are a committed minimal shoe fell runner then this could well be the best shoe you have ever worn. If you are someone who has started on the path of minimal shoe fell running and are gradually reducing the cushioning on your shoes then this is the shoe to aim for.
Time will tell if the superb grip holds up – if it does then yes the Inov8 Bare-Grip 200 is worth the extra money, well for me and my running anyway!
Brilliant 

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Where can these be bought? I have just looked at all the online stores I usually use and nobody has them. I have been hanging onto a pair of 330's that have had better days just waiting for these.

From Desperate in The Wirral

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Originally Posted by Nigel

Where can these be bought? I have just looked at all the online stores I usually use and nobody has them. I have been hanging onto a pair of 330's that have had better days just waiting for these.

From Desperate in The Wirral

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They should be in stores now. HERE

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Originally Posted by Nigel

Where can these be bought? I have just looked at all the online stores I usually use and nobody has them. I have been hanging onto a pair of 330's that have had better days just waiting for these.

From Desperate in The Wirral

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Ordered mine from MountainFeet in Oldham - great store, excellent service...

Had three runs in the Bare-Grips now - absolutely superb...just finished a 1.5hrs hill and speed session, the grip is awesome either descending or contouring on wet grass/dead heather, bracken...no rolling around the foot, the shoe sits nice and snug - Inov8 have this shoe spot on, brilliant stuff :D

What's the sizing like compared to the x-talon? I've always found the inov-8 sizing inconsistent.

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Originally Posted by overthecrowroad

What's the sizing like compared to the x-talon? I've always found the inov-8 sizing inconsistent.

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Same as for the X-Talon - I wear a UK 8 in the X-Talon and the same size for the Bare-Grip is perfect...

Just about to don the Bare-Grips and head out for a rather wet and muddy trip around The Chew :D

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Originally Posted by overthecrowroad

What's the sizing like compared to the x-talon? I've always found the inov-8 sizing inconsistent.

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I guess its individual but I've never had a problem - I've got/had 270's, 330's, 220's, 320's, X Talon 212 and the newer 190's (Yes - I like Inov8!) and all a size 11 and all a perfect fit. So I was just going to send for a pair from PB site (thanks for the link Inov8 Insider) but may wait until I go to Keswick tomorrow and see if there is a stockist there.

Thanks. Just ordered a pair in my usual size.

You an Iain Banks fan by any chance?

Nah I tried to read one of his novels once but found it way too boring. The name comes from the road over the Campsie Fells where I used to go cycling before I got fed up with the traffic and took up fell running instead.

Ah. I enjoy his sci-fi stuff much more - I read the Wasp Factory back in the day and was blown away. Don't think any of his other stuff had the same impact.

I have been looking into barefoot running and good running posture and wondered if the forum had an opinion on the following

"are converse Chuck Taylor All Star a suitable transition BF running shoe?" (maybe not pink!) these are not really for fell running, more likely road/hard trail, obviously there is no real grip.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbn...anium-1518.jpg

they seem to tick all the boxes, but I wondered if i was missing something.

They're very cheap. Barefoot running shoes usually cost much more than 'normal' trainers

I seem to have missed the point with all the barefoot running concept. I thought it was about running with no shoes but I now think the running with no shoes is so you are then ready to spend eighty to a hundred quid plus on specialist footwear. I might be being cynical for a change but perhaps not :closed:

Converse are too expensive for minimal shoes and the soles are too thick. Try here http://www.schoolpumps.co.uk/ £6
As I have wider feet I have used £8 aqua shoes http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/tusa-aquashoes-170644450/
No good for on the fell though. I must admit to recently buying the expensive Merrell Trail Gloves which are excellent shoes. If they ever do a these with studs I don't think I would by anything else again.

For me the problem with most uncushioned "normal" shoes like converse is that the toe box is too narrow and does not let your toes splay natrually. I too wear watershoes (I found mine in Tesco for £5 a pair).
Whilst in utiopia running competely barefoot is where I would like to be there are some fundamental problems. Most of us have spent a lifetime wearing shoes, this means that the soles of our feet are soft. When I have spent an entire summer wandering about barefoot, I can run about 5 miles without shoes. The problem of winter then arises, as in the UK it is pretty cold in the winter, I (being a southern softie), need something to keep my feet warm. The other problem is that in the winter I do most of my running in the dark, I therefore wear something incase I tread on something sharp that some lout has left lying about. Come spring my feet are soft again!
The point of Barefoot running is not to save money on running shoes, but it is to allow your feet to work naturally, which they cant do in tight pointy padded cushioned shoes.
Having come from a position where before discovering "barefoot running" I could not run. I am now getting to the point where I am building myself up to run reasonable distances. I have tried cushioned shoes with the new techniques I have learnt and i end up injured again. So for me it is a no brainer, no cushioning I can run, cushioning I can't.
As it has started warming up again I have been for my first barefoot run of the year. I started with a 1 miler, so there may be a little residual toughness in my feet, maybe by the end of the summer I will be able to run more than 5 miles barefoot! I also have a cunning plan to get me through the winter. The local road running club do an evening a week training on an indoor track. I am thinking of joining next winter, so I can get a barefoot session a week in, which I think might tide me over to the spring!

Born to Run?

A post from Hal Koerner's blog:

http://roguevalleyrunners.blogspot.c...rn-to-run.html

OUCH!

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Originally Posted by Derby Tup

They're very cheap. Barefoot running shoes usually cost much more than 'normal' trainers

I seem to have missed the point with all the barefoot running concept. I thought it was about running with no shoes but I now think the running with no shoes is so you are then ready to spend eighty to a hundred quid plus on specialist footwear. I might be being cynical for a change but perhaps not :closed:

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I think the big difference is between 100% barefoot evangelicals and runners who incorporate barefoot training/drills into their training.

The first group is a lifestyle things and nothing to do with running performance. The second is about improving running form, strengthening the lower extremities, moving to faster/lighter shoes and lowering injury incidence.

Fell runners who run primarily off-road and in shoes such as Walshes and the lower arrowed Inov-8's are pretty much there already as you can't get much more minimal than these shoes. For road/trail runners who want to ditch their cushioning and support, it's hardly expensive to either find a grassy playing field for drills or get a pair of aqua-shoes and then, once they've made the transition, get racing flats rather than heavily cushioned shoes.

An interesting article on barefoot running HERE.

went out for my first fell run in my VFF today now the paths have dried out a bit, the brief bit of road was uncomfortable but the next 4 miles felt surprisingly good, a good deal of old bracken and heather, a bit of dirt and a steep climb and descent, I was surprised how well they gripped in everything except slimey mud, I had to slow down though on a rocky stretch. i could almost see myself racing in them if I knew there would be no rocks on route.

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Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak

went out for my first fell run in my VFF today now the paths have dried out a bit, the brief bit of road was uncomfortable but the next 4 miles felt surprisingly good, a good deal of old bracken and heather, a bit of dirt and a steep climb and descent, I was surprised how well they gripped in everything except slimey mud, I had to slow down though on a rocky stretch. i could almost see myself racing in them if I knew there would be no rocks on route.

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Keep at it Ian - VFF for training runs for me, in the dry. When you are happy with the minimal shoe way, then certainly Inov8 Bare-Grip 200's for racing - just finished my first month in these and more than impressed. My concern was the sole/grip wearing out/de-laminating but they are rock solid and wearing well - certainly better than the X-Talon soles....It is a different style of running and one which after two years I'm now beginning to reap the benefits, ie. feeling the earth beneath me and being injury free - brilliant :D

Anyone taken off their shoes yet this year? I've logged about 3 miles so far this month properly barefoot and will do more. I love the change in the weather and its great to feel the ground under my feet.