BGR in more than 24 hours?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by old un

Achievement in the mountains is personal. Time is but one measure.

well said

ill second that .

---

very very true..

Its why she's been so successful with TM.. she started off with an interest in running but has basically used that to develop as a runner.. its been superb to watch and I think a major reason why the magazine has been a success. She knows what the people need to read to develop.. but shes also taken that on board.

So regardless of the fail/success.. she's progressed as a runner hugely over the past few days and should be rightfully proud of that.

The beauty of running is there is no ceiling.. for any of us.. we can always point to more, but so can they about you. we all have unfinished goals.. I always think enjoy your successes re-evaluate and progress again.. slowly slowly catchy monkey.. :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by keswicksimon

I suppose it's time I proffered my view on the matter.
I think among the wider fell running/walking community, virtually everyone would expect anyone claiming to have done the BGR would give a time in under 24 hours.
I think I would be correct in saying, that of the individuals who attempted the BGR, got back to the Moot Hall, but failed to make it in under 24hours, virtually none would say they've done the BGR.
I have immense admiration for individuals who, through various reasons, successfully finish the route of the BGR knowing they have missed the 24 hour deadline. But for me they have only completed the route and not the Bob Graham Round.
Simon

---

Keswicksimon has got this right, if you do the route outside the 24hour window youve just done a circuit of 42 lakes mountains. Finish it in less that 24hours and youve done a Bob Graham Round.

Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craghopper

Keswicksimon has got this right, if you do the route outside the 24hour window youve just done a circuit of 42 lakes mountains. Finish it in less that 24hours and youve done a Bob Graham Round.

Mike

---

Spot on.

This isn't quite right because whether you do it in under 24 hours or not if you visit the prescribed 42 peaks as well as starting and finishing at The Moot Hall, rather than visiting any convenient 42 peaks starting anywhere you want, then you have completed the Bob Graham Round.

Completing it in less than 24 hours allows you to join the Bob Graham Club, if you want to and not everyone does, providing you have complied with their other rules.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craghopper

Keswicksimon has got this right, if you do the route outside the 24hour window youve just done a circuit of 42 lakes mountains. Finish it in less that 24hours and youve done a Bob Graham Round.

Mike

---

No, not really. I think Bob Wightman has it right on another thread.

Quote:

---

To complete the Bob Graham Round you merely need to have traversed the route.

---

Quote:

---

To complete the Bob Graham Round 24hr challenge you need to have traversed the route and returned to the starting point, traditionally the Moot Hall in Keswick, within 24hrs.

---

Or does he....
On his own website Bob Wightman says in his second sentence "One of these is the 24 hour challenge known as the Bob Graham Round."
http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php
Or am I looking at the wrong website?

Meh, I'm still reading that differently.

I'm kind of viewing it as to separate entities. I'll give an analogy. I've run the Edale Skyline Route a number of times, never done the race though.

Oh well, I'm not changing my mind. Reminds me, need to look into this registering business.

Not for me, obviously. For a friend, his compooters bust.

Indeed...

A few years ago, when I was recce-ing for a BGR 24 hr challenge attempt, I started what was supposed to be a recce of leg 4 and 5... So I took the bus to Dunmail. I accidentally did the whole thing... as I was feeling exceptionally good and the conditions were great... So I checked with BG sec and was told: unsupported, solo, no witnesses and not starting and finishing at Moot Hall = not in the club :) I seem to remember him saying that, had I already done a verified round and was in the club, the unsopported solo would have counted but correct me if I am wrong BG sec.

I don't mind, I have done it, on my own, and enjoyed it. I grasped the oportunity while I had it, as later that year I twisted my ankle and ripped some ligaments at the OMM (the Borrowdale drowned one) and haven't been able to run properly since, let alone contemplate a BGR :) Carpe Diem I'd say!

It was awesome to be casually out in the hills for just under 24 hours, collapse at Dunmail and be quietly elated for a LONG time without having to shout about it... My Garmin gave up about 12 hours in, ra out of battery, but I still think I have the trace on my extrenal HD somewhere :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shaunaneto

No, not really. I think Bob Wightman has it right on another thread.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanneke

Indeed...

A few years ago, when I was recce-ing for a BGR 24 hr challenge attempt, I started what was supposed to be a recce of leg 4 and 5... So I took the bus to Dunmail. I accidentally did the whole thing... as I was feeling exceptionally good and the conditions were great... So I checked with BG sec and was told: unsupported, solo, no witnesses and not starting and finishing at Moot Hall = not in the club :) I seem to remember him saying that, had I already done a verified round and was in the club, the unsopported solo would have counted but correct me if I am wrong BG sec.

I don't mind, I have done it, on my own, and enjoyed it. I grasped the oportunity while I had it, as later that year I twisted my ankle and ripped some ligaments at the OMM (the Borrowdale drowned one) and haven't been able to run properly since, let alone contemplate a BGR :) Carpe Diem I'd say!

It was awesome to be casually out in the hills for just under 24 hours, collapse at Dunmail and be quietly elated for a LONG time without having to shout about it... My Garmin gave up about 12 hours in, ra out of battery, but I still think I have the trace on my extrenal HD somewhere :)

---

Hannke, I'd say what you did was a very decent circiut of 42 lakes tops in a good time but not a Bob Graham round. Sorry about your ankle, will it get better so you can give it a proper go?

Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craghopper

Hannke, I'd say what you did was a very decent circiut of 42 lakes tops in a good time but not a Bob Graham round. Sorry about your ankle, will it get better so you can give it a proper go?

Mike

---

"A proper go!" Ha ha. That made me smile.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted your comment, (it might well have been light-hearted) but I presume you are only meaning that a solo unsupported round cannot be, by its very nature, ratified in the way that is required by the club for membership. Plus the start / finish point requirement.

I think that what Hanneke did was a magnificent achievement and is more in the spirit of the round than some other attempts. In some cases it takes less flags , ropes and Sherpas to get someone up Everest! (Please feel free to shoot this comment down in flames!) :-)

If it was me who had done what Hanneke did, (this is my opinion; I wouldn't dream of speaking on her, or anyone else's, behalf) I wouldn't have thought there would be much to gain to do it all again within the "rules" just for the sake of membership of the club. However I understand why others might see this differently.


Also, with regards to the person who did it recently in 26+ hours, I still think that is a stunning achievement. And that not being able to get their certificate for a sub-24 hour is neither here nor there.

However I think it is useful to have the boundaries set for ratification, (I'm enjoying the GPS tracking debate) but people shouldn't get too hung up about it if others want to do their own thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Harry H Howgill

"A proper go!" Ha ha. That made me smile.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted your comment, (it might well have been light-hearted) but I presume you are only meaning that a solo unsupported round cannot be, by its very nature, ratified in the way that is required by the club for membership. Plus the start / finish point requirement.

I think that what Hanneke did was a magnificent achievement and is more in the spirit of the round than some other attempts. In some cases it takes less flags , ropes and Sherpas to get someone up Everest! (Please feel free to shoot this comment down in flames!) :-)

If it was me who had done what Hanneke did, (this is my opinion; I wouldn't dream of speaking on her, or anyone else's, behalf) I wouldn't have thought there would be much to gain to do it all again within the "rules" just for the sake of membership of the club. However I understand why others might see this differently.


Also, with regards to the person who did it recently in 26+ hours, I still think that is a stunning achievement. And that not being able to get their certificate for a sub-24 hour is neither here nor there.

However I think it is useful to have the boundaries set for ratification, (I'm enjoying the GPS tracking debate) but people shouldn't get too hung up about it if others want to do their own thing.

---

Im sorry, I didnt mean to cause any offence. What I meant was I hope Hannekes ankle gets better so that she can have another go starting from the moot hall and get her Bob Graham formerly acknolwedged. No question that what she has done is a big thing, but not a Bob Graham i think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craghopper

Im sorry, I didnt mean to cause any offence. What I meant was I hope Hannekes ankle gets better so that she can have another go starting from the moot hall and get her Bob Graham formerly acknolwedged. No question that what she has done is a big thing, but not a Bob Graham i think.

---

No, no, you haven't in the slightest.

It has been an interesting debate. I agree that doing the BG round is to do the route from Moot Hall, but to complete the "challenge" it must be done in the 24 hour time limit. Plus ratification etc etc.

all the best

Alastair

No, it won't... I have become a cyclist in stead so all is good, still getting out in the hills, but on two wheels now :)

I don't mind what people think it was, it was a BGR recce that turned out to include the whole circuit and completed in under 24 hours... so for my personal satisfaction, it works:)

I have contemplated walking it and see if I can walk it in 24 hours, but whenever I do a reasonable amount of descending, even walking, the ankle plays up too much... Practically, I am missing the anterior talo-fibular ligament, which is crucial in stabilising the ankle...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craghopper

Hannke, I'd say what you did was a very decent circiut of 42 lakes tops in a good time but not a Bob Graham round. Sorry about your ankle, will it get better so you can give it a proper go?

Mike

---

Thanks HHH :D

It was an awesome time out in the hills... I always was intent on doing what I called a 'double solo' with a friend and his wife doing some basic road crossing support, witnessing each others summits, as we didn't feel like setting up a whole train of support and followers. The idea was to get perpared and when both ready, just choose a day when conditions were ideal and go for it. When I got to Keswick after leg 3, 4 and 5 I felt good, so decided to do leg 1 as well, when I got to Threlkeld I was feeling ok, so thought: what the heck, I can always bivvy out if I get too tired and continued.

As it stands, I found conditions ideal when recce-ing and went for it! I have to say it wasn't my longest run out in the hills, nor my toughest... and I have gone on to do tougher endurance MTB/CX events...

And no, it wasn't a 'proper go' :) I certainly have never said that I have completed/done a BGR and I have never had the desire to have a proper go either, after that, apart from proving that it 'is only a long walk' ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Harry H Howgill

"A proper go!" Ha ha. That made me smile.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted your comment, (it might well have been light-hearted) but I presume you are only meaning that a solo unsupported round cannot be, by its very nature, ratified in the way that is required by the club for membership. Plus the start / finish point requirement.

I think that what Hanneke did was a magnificent achievement and is more in the spirit of the round than some other attempts. In some cases it takes less flags , ropes and Sherpas to get someone up Everest! (Please feel free to shoot this comment down in flames!) :-)

If it was me who had done what Hanneke did, (this is my opinion; I wouldn't dream of speaking on her, or anyone else's, behalf) I wouldn't have thought there would be much to gain to do it all again within the "rules" just for the sake of membership of the club. However I understand why others might see this differently.


Also, with regards to the person who did it recently in 26+ hours, I still think that is a stunning achievement. And that not being able to get their certificate for a sub-24 hour is neither here nor there.

However I think it is useful to have the boundaries set for ratification, (I'm enjoying the GPS tracking debate) but people shouldn't get too hung up about it if others want to do their own thing.

---

Hanneke- I think your attitude is spot on. You know what you have done and perhaps that is what matters most (it would to me). I quite fancy a go but do not like the idea of teams of people either on the route or even at the road crossings if it is going to be more work in the planning than it is in the running. Given all the erosion issues etc and how 'famous' it has become I might just find other challenges anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanneke

........I certainly have never said that I have completed/done a BGR and I have never had the desire to have a proper go either, after that, apart from proving that it 'is only a long walk' ;)

---

For most normal mortals - and I definitely include myself as a poor example of just that - it's significantly more than "a long walk".

A BGR race walk would be interesting. I don't think many folk outside of maybe the top 10 or 20 % of long fell race fields would have any chance of walking a BGR in under 24 hours :closed:

Incidentally (I'm not sure if this is closer to topic or further away) we met a couple on top of Skiddaw on Saturday lunch-time who were doing a 6 day walking BGR complete with big ruck-sacks

Thanks Karen :)

My friend and I also thought that, hence the initial idea of a 'double solo' with minimal support... In the end it transpired that with the right conditions at the right time, it can be done alone. I have to say that I had actually never been over leg 4 before that day either. I had recced 1 and 3 and 5 in both directions and 2 in one direction, but not starting in Threlkeld... I had the Harveys map with me though and nav was easy as conditions were clear. Having set out initially to do leg 3 & 4, then just ging on as I was feeling good really worked... no pressure, it was very relaxed... Got a little tense when I realised I was hitting the sub 24 hrs mark mind, thinking: now I really do want to make it :)

There are plenty of other challenges. For me, it is all about myself, my bike these days, and my surroundings, i.e. hills and mountains. I love bike bivvying, just go out in the hills on my own on the MTB and camp where takes my fancy :) I am thinking about an interesting endurance MTB challenge but haven't come up with one yet...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by karen nash

Hanneke- I think your attitude is spot on. You know what you have done and perhaps that is what matters most (it would to me). I quite fancy a go but do not like the idea of teams of people either on the route or even at the road crossings if it is going to be more work in the planning than it is in the running. Given all the erosion issues etc and how 'famous' it has become I might just find other challenges anyway.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derby Tup

A BGR race walk would be interesting. I don't think many folk outside of maybe the top 10 or 20 % of long fell race fields would have any chance of walking a BGR in under 24 hours :closed:

---

Yup fancy giving it a try?

My plans had been for last Xmas, to go out with rucksack, tent and food/drink and start walking at midnight on the 24th of December and finish by midnight the 25th. Alas, I ended up in A&E with complications from a MTB-ing injury, so it never happened. Idea was to see how far I would get and camp when/where needed :)

The "rules" surrounding the Lakes 24hr record, the BGR was the record round from 1932 until Ken Heaton's extensions in the early 1960s, have changed over the years. The first formalisation was by Dr Wakefield who stated them as "To traverse on foot as many summits over 2000ft as possible and return to the starting point within 24hrs" (or very similar - I can't remember the exact words). Keswick became the default starting point probably because so many of the early contenders were based there, including Wakefield himself, but early attempts to better Bob Graham's record began at different locations and today attempts on the 24hr record may start and finish at any location.

I suspect that the reason the BGR club specifies starting and finishing at the Moot Hall is because that's where Bob Graham himself began and finished his round. I don't know as I was only thirteen when the club was formed :closed: With erosion concerns, in hindsight it might have have been better if the BGR was like the Paddy Buckley where you may start from any point (road crossing) as that would spread the footfall though I can't say I'd fancy the prospect of going for three hours between Robinson and Skiddaw without ticking off a summit.

I think people are trying to read too much in to all this, if you've had a good long day out on the fells then that's the important thing. If it just so happens to fit the criteria for joining the BG club and you wish to do so then that's just something extra. There are plenty of other challenges, check http://www.gofar.org.uk/ for some ideas or John Fleetwood's blog.

And no, I am not tempted to do it on/with a bike :o :w00t: :closed:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanneke

Yup fancy giving it a try?

My plans had been for last Xmas, to go out with rucksack, tent and food/drink and start walking at midnight on the 24th of December and finish by midnight the 25th. Alas, I ended up in A&E with complications from a MTB-ing injury, so it never happened. Idea was to see how far I would get and camp when/where needed :)

---

To busy drinking Sneck Lifter more like:w00t::D

Shhhhhht ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amex

To busy drinking Sneck Lifter more like:w00t::D

---

Well Done Hann, wasn't aware you'd done that.............drink snecklifter that is :wink:

:closed:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stevefoster

Well Done Hann, wasn't aware you'd done that.............drink snecklifter that is :wink:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanneke

:closed:

---

Ah the old closed eyes routine, you know I meant well done on the extended BG recce :wink:

:closed:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stevefoster

Ah the old closed eyes routine, you know I meant well done on the extended BG recce :wink:

---

Brilliant work Hann on the Snecklifter. Grand stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanneke

:closed:

---

Right back at yer :closed::closed::closed:

:closed:

Soooo, when are we al up in the Lakes for a Snecklifter session then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stevefoster

Right back at yer :closed::closed::closed:

---

.....:closed:

How about this ?

Bob Graham's route was completed in order to set a new Lakeland 24 Hour Round record.
So the BG is an instance of the 24 Hour Round.
It is Bob Graham's 24 Hour Round
Anyone claiming to have completed a "Round" should have done it inside 24 hours.
Anyone wishing to complete the route can take as long as they like - and, of course, thoroughly enjoy the experience

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derby Tup

A BGR race walk would be interesting. I don't think many folk outside of maybe the top 10 or 20 % of long fell race fields would have any chance of walking a BGR in under 24 hours :closed:

---

I think you're being more than a bit generous there DT. I'd have thought you're looking at top 1% at least. Let's face it, for anyone who has actually been out and gone around the route in under 24 hours, the very idea that you could walk it doesn't even enter your head.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andy k

How about this ?

Bob Graham's route was completed in order to set a new Lakeland 24 Hour Round record.
So the BG is an instance of the 24 Hour Round.
It is Bob Graham's 24 Hour Round
Anyone claiming to have completed a "Round" should have done it inside 24 hours.
Anyone wishing to complete the route can take as long as they like - and, of course, thoroughly enjoy the experience

---

Works for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andy k

How about this ?

Bob Graham's route was completed in order to set a new Lakeland 24 Hour Round record.
So the BG is an instance of the 24 Hour Round.
It is Bob Graham's 24 Hour Round
Anyone claiming to have completed a "Round" should have done it inside 24 hours.
Anyone wishing to complete the route can take as long as they like - and, of course, thoroughly enjoy the experience

---

Agreed. This is all getting a little silly.

Perhaps it's also worth also stressing the word 'claimed' and reflecting on how important that really is to anybody. For all intents and purposes solo unsupported round is no different in it's status with the club than a fully witnessed round that does not submit it's details for ratification. However, the club does not own the round. Bob Graham was not a member of the club, by some people's reasoning that means he didn't complete his round...

When I did my round 2 years ago, on a very hot day in July, another guy set off from the moot hall in the opposite direction at the same time. He was going completely solo, and being from Scotland had very little knowledge of the route. He had no support - he had to make detours for water. I ran in to him again at Pike O stickle, but he was gone by the time I reached the end having completed an hour quicker than me. Who performed to the highest standard?

Its pretty much right for me too. It's all a bit of grey area!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bob

I think people are trying to read too much in to all this, if you've had a good long day out on the fells then that's the important thing. If it just so happens to fit the criteria for joining the BG club and you wish to do so then that's just something extra. There are plenty of other challenges, check http://www.gofar.org.uk/ for some ideas or John Fleetwood's blog.

---

Spot on, no grey area, move on!

....moved.