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Walking when others do is often sensible. I have walked past people who were still running, using much less effort/energy. Depends what result you want - a good time/place, or running the whole way, or at least as much as possible. I usually go for the former, though occasionally in shortish trail type fell races I will try to run the whole way, and every now and then I succeed.
You use different muscle groups as well when walking - my back gives me some jiff and I sometimes have to walk uphill just to make it - when I run it hurts, when I walk it eases and disappears.
Having just got in from the waiting list, I'll just be trying to get around, hopefully without cramping so 5 hours will do with a sub 4:30 then for next year.
STOP PRESS!
I got out for 17m, that's a training dist PB!
Ok so it took me 3h, mainly 'cos i just kept going along footpaths i didn't know and having to loop back again, but still...
I reckon a few more of those (maybe push up to 19m) combined with my regular 10m hill sessions should see me right, or at least a bit closer to 4h than 4h30m.
Hoping for bit worse weather than last year; everyone else likes the sun to be out but i hate it on a race. I much prefer cold rain and wind, it slows everyone else down and means i don't need to drink as much.
Of course it can stop when i've finished and am wanting a beer on the field!
Having run the route innumerable times, I’ve sort of got my own strategy for hitting a 4:20 finish in the race and, no matter where I am on the route nowadays, I can reliably compute my likely best hope for a finish time based on this (and I use the word extremely loosely) “strategy”.
Pen Y Ghent trig – 3.75 miles in 40 minutes (a running speed of 5.5 mph)
Ribblehead Viaduct – 7.5 miles in 60 minutes (7.5 mph)
Whernside trig – 2.5 miles in 45 minutes (3.3 mph!!)
Hill Inn – 2.6 miles in 25 minutes (6.25 mph)
Ingleborough trig – 2.3 miles in 45 minutes (3 and a smidge mph!!!)
Horton – 4.7 miles in 45 minutes (6.25 mph)
So that’s 2:10 hours spent on the ups and 2:10 hours spent on the downs. By way of comparison I guess a top 30 finisher might want to do 1:30 for the ups and 1:40 for the downs. I still hope one day to get much closer to a 4 hour completion (my best time ever running solo is 4:15) but unfortunately shaving time off the front always seems to bite my bum on the way back :)
By the way I’ve only included the running speed figures to show the cumulative impact of the climbs; I may be a geek in many, many ways but I’m sure as heck not into giving myself different running speed targets for each flipping split!
[QUOTE=Stolly;394660]
Pen Y Ghent trig – 3.75 miles in 40 minutes (a running speed of 5.5 mph)
Ribblehead Viaduct – 7.5 miles in 60 minutes (7.5 mph)
Whernside trig – 2.5 miles in 45 minutes (3.3 mph!!)
Hill Inn – 2.6 miles in 25 minutes (6.25 mph)
Ingleborough trig – 2.3 miles in 45 minutes (3 and a smidge mph!!!)
Horton – 4.7 miles in 45 minutes (6.25 mph)
Interesting Stolly - I did the race first in 2008 when I'd prepped fairly well and was at my fittest, although still under prepared for the PPP.
I was proportionately on the money to Ribblehead (1:46:42) but then perhaps tried to push a little too much up Whernside.
Not by much perhaps, but a minute - 2 minutes slower up Whernside may well have meant I'd have come down 5 minutes quicker.
I'm not as fit this year, so I'll be looking to get to Ribblehead in around 1:50 or just over, but the order of the day will be steady up Whernside and hopefully I'l be able to get off the top in one piece.
My plan is to try not to disintegrate on the file run off Ingleb**ger after putting in so much sterling work before hand. 4.11 last year and want to break the hallowed 4 hour barrier that I keep dreaming about.
Incidentally, I may be looking to scrounge a lift from anyone who lives in the Oldham/Manc area as post race I need to be in Shaw for the evening so that 'er Outdoors can do Howich Tri the next day. I'll be able to get a lift to the race from deepest darkest South Yorks so just looking for a kind soul to give me a lift post event across the border.
P.S. I am not a Yorkshireman if that is a determining factor!!
Anyone any ideas where you should be and when if your aiming for around 3 hours 40 ish ?
No idea personally :oQuote:
Originally Posted by andygib1982
Suggest look at results from past years and check splits (results have splits for all check points) and look for someone who finished around your target time, bearing in mind you don't want someone who set off at a hundred miles an hour and blew up horribly
Have a look at http://www.threepeaksrace.org.uk/FullSplitResults09.pdf and Brian Fogarty in 55th place.Quote:
Originally Posted by andygib1982
Brian was on his first ever PPP, in fact his first race over HM distance - he was a 35 minute 10K road runner who fancied something different and did exceptionally well.
His splits would probably be good targets as he set off steady and worked his way through.
This gives a number of splits for different target times (from the 3PR website)Quote:
Originally Posted by andygib1982
Cheers Witton,gives us an idea where i need to beQuote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Those splits have not been worked out especially scientifically! They suggest that the record time split for the Whernside ascent is 20 minutes (inhumanly fast) whilst suggesting that a 4:30 runner should do it in 32 minutes is quite frankly bonkers. Ditto the Ingleborough ascents. Those times are all based on the whole race average speed I bet..... and are therefore suicidally inaccurate :)Quote:
Originally Posted by fozzy
The winner in 2008 did the Whernside ascent in 28 minutes!!!!! In fact the 2008 splits are the best thing to study
Really looking forward to this great race now. Cant wait to visit Yorkshire :thumbup: Living in N.wales we have it all here but can't beat going to new places.
My training runs so far have been 17-20 mile with 6500-7000ft of climbing and a busy racing calendar so far. Can do these routes consistently in 3:27ish +or- a few minutes and no really good paths.
Hoping for 3:30ish. Is it right someone described it as 3 seperate fell races with 2 XC races inbetween??? haha sounds a classic
Whataver, really looking forward to it, see you there.
All this fast talk is scary, I juat want to be at hill inn in under 3 and a half hours to beat that cut!! Aim to finish and be smiling, if I'm last so what....
Ginge - Your carriage will await - Live in Ashton under Lyne & travel via Oldham so returning via Shaw won't be a problem. I'll be the slightly weary looking one at the finish - there that should narrow the field down (ever so slightly......:D). Seriously send me a pm nearer the time - not being a Yorkshireman was the only factor.........gets ready to don tin hat....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginge Whinge
You are a star man.
Our paths have crossed at a few races and I'm sure we spent some time suffering together during my 1st PPP in 2008.
Thanks again and I'll get back to you nearer the time.
Having recently started running after years on an mtb I have finally understood what it was my father enjoyed so much. Anywho it turns out he was a bit quick in his day finishing 12th with a time of 3:03ish back in 1984. After all these years I am finally realizing what an awesome achievement that was.
were in N wales u from?Quote:
Originally Posted by gafrymynydd
Will stay in your slip stream then lol i was aiming for 4-15 to 4-30Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
Hello Chamber34. I live near Dolgellau, sort of the south of N.wales. However I have Cader Idris, Aran's, Rhinogydd on my doorstep and the mountains of Snowdonia are only 3/4 hour drive away.
My Mum was born in dolgellau. snowdonia bout 40min from me,
Hurray, someone else who feels like me about this! Thank you Biara.
Quote:
Originally Posted by biara
Good luck chamber34; last year a 4:15 finish would have given 180th in the race and 4:30 280th with 602 runners finishing all told. The defining moment of the race is just how well you cope with the climb up Whernside; its no exageration to say that on reaching the top, you often find yourself surrounded by other runners screaming like babies and rolling around with cramp :DQuote:
Originally Posted by chamber34
maybe ill go for 5 hrs then. is wernside the last climb?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
I looking forward to going up them big concrete steps they look tough
I know its different surface but just wanted a comparison , but just wanted a rough estimate. Which is tougher Snowdon marathon or 3 peaks? and roughly what would the difference be? has anyone done both? just wondered what the comparison would be, just want an idea of what time i will be aiming for in 3 peaks
Thanks
Me too Hes and Biara :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hes
(and you are both faster than me! :o)
Whernside is the 2nd climb chamber...and the toughest in my opinion. See the pic below of three of us practically crawling! :w00t: If you look carefully you can see Ribblehead viaduct in the distance! Not that I'm trying to scare you or anything! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by chamber34
It's the steps upto the 3rd peak Ingleborough which is my favourite part of the route :)
PPP is a strange mix of fast trail running and three climbs. As Stolly pointed out earlier one of the keys to having a decent run is surviving Whernside, the second peak. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses but I reckon I could run Snowdonia marathon quicker than I'd ever do at the PPPQuote:
Originally Posted by chamber34
Its 3 miles longer Snowdon, though on faster surface, I know there nowhere near 5000ft of climb but there are 2 climbs in snowdon marathon, how much climb would there be roughly. did Snowdon 3-56 so was aiming for under 4-30 in 3p, possible?. Im ok on hills but crap going down!Quote:
Originally Posted by Derby Tup
No, Whernside's the second one, but it follows quite a decent run off PYG, including the best part of 5 miles on hard track/road. Then you go straight up the front, it's a very deceptively steep climb, & seems to take ages just to get the bottom of the main ascent, probably about a mile from where you leave the Blea Moor path to the bottom of the climb, but all uphill over fields, not easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by chamber34
In theory the run up to Ingleborough over the slabs is runnable, did it a couple of times recce'ing, but on the race I blew up so walked most of the way (I think). Then the legs howl again as you clamber up the rocks at the top, another million people passed me there!
And don't forget the run back down to the finish, 4 miles of agony. I had to stop & eat as I hadn't taken anywhere enough on board, I was seeing stars!
Dragged my sorry ass back in 4.24, 429th, which on reflection I was mega happy with. I'd like to say I learned a lot & will tackle it differently this year, but somehow I doubt it & I'll probably go even slower :w00t:
Still looking forward to it mind
If it helps, I did Rombalds Stride in 3hr 51 the other week (approx 22mi/3000'), and although I'm not too bothered about what time I do for 3P, I've got half an eye on 4:30. If I was doing a road marathon, I'd be looking at running 3:15ish (maybe a bit quicker - my half time (1:25:40) predicts 3:02, but I'm sure that's overly optimistic.
I am in no doubt that I will be one of those lying down at the top of Whernside (or Ingleborough) crying in agony with cramp!
You should do that easy Fozzy (famous last words!!). My best half (although admittedly only really done Keswick, not flat!) is 1.29, road mara 3.22 & Yorkshireman off road mara 4.01, & as i said above did 4.24. If you're sensible (which I wasn't!) 4.30 should be well do-able for you.
Should - but I tend to die at longer distances - did a 20mile road race last april and did 2:30 - legs gave up at 15miles. I've been working hard on extending my distance since last Autumn and I'm now comfortable up to about 18miles on a long training run, which is encouraging! Still a few more long runs to go + Edale Skyline before the April 30th yet!Quote:
Originally Posted by alfa_scud
It’s a hard comparison to make to be honest – fell races tend to attract people who run in the hills all the time whilst road marathons tend to attract road runners, less keen on running in the hills. Hilly road marathons fall into the middle ground and certainly do put off the good runners that are chasing personal bests. There again I’m sure some fell runners are suddenly much more interested in having a bash. If ever I do run a marathon I’d go for Snowdon or Kielder or Windermere I’m sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by chamber34
Although I’ve never ever done a road marathon I have done the Langdale half marathon (in 1:41) which is a fantastically hilly course – the marathon run at the same time as the half is just two laps of the same route and I think the marathon winner the year did it ran a time of something like 3:10 !!!.
What I do know though is that fell races rarely attract fun runners and I always struggle when reviewing the starting line up to identify other runners that don’t look as fit as butchers dogs. In the few road races that I’ve run I’ve maybe managed to finish in the top 15% of the field whilst I’ve often struggled to be in the top 50% of fell races :)
With equal fitness I'd look to add at least 40 minutes to your time.Quote:
Originally Posted by chamber34
I usually finish around halfway in my fell races, but they only small fields and little local races. Never done a big fell race. Id be happy with 65-75% in this race. my best marathon is anglesey undulating 3-31. Look for me at start i dont look fit as a butchers dog lol. Guesing by peoples comments that Snowdon will be about an hour quicker than 3P so lookin at 4-50 to 5 hours? So will aim for breaking 5 hours be good goal for my first 3pQuote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
Thanks
Bloody hell that looks tough, how long does that go on for? Can you cancel entrys lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Goatess
Ha ha...no wimping out now Chamber! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by chamber34
It's a slog up that bit but a relief once you get to the top! I had terrible stomach cramps on the way up and coming off the top had to walk and stop for a while once I was through the Hill Inn cut off!
You will do great I'm sure but you should stop worrying about getting a fast time...just make sure you hit the cut offs and enjoy the route. :thumbup:
Ye just gonna try enjoy it now! Ill be made up with finishing. Out of interest do many people get timed out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Goatess
Have a look at the maps of the route. I guess its the last 150 meters that are vertical but all the trapsing/trotting through moorland grass and tussocks to that point is equally toughQuote:
Originally Posted by chamber34