Orthotics and fell shoes

[Twister]

I'm going to say something that I know a lot of people (especially physios) will disagree with - Be aware of orthotics.
Why do we need them? Is it because low arches (like mine) will become stronger if I support them? Will the orthotics allow my arches to flex and help absorb shocks? Is it to correct my foot and knee alignment? I can see a case for this if all I do is stand up on one spot all day... but I run up and down hills for god sake - EACH FOOT PLACEMENT IS DIFFERENT. Is a fell shoe the best place for an orthotic?

After 2 years of superfeet etc and having the physio get really confused when I told him that my road shoes are designed for overpronators - so why do I need inserts? I decided to go it alone. This is totally my own opinion -basically what I've done is change my running style. I no longer heel strike like I used to; I run barefoot from time to time to remind myself how to run naturally and properly, I do "arch lifting" exercises like the yoga mountain posture and most importantly I've come to the conclusion that all this "tech" in our shoes is a load of marketing bulls**t. Why do we need peices of rubber and plastic to help us do what our feet have been doing on their own for eons. We have evolved to run - I think that is agreed fact. In the last micro second of human existance we've decided to start messing around with what is already an efficient machine all in the name of selling things that cost us a bloody fortune.

Rant over. Check out chi running and runningbarefoot.org for inspiration.

[The Navigator]

I'm going to say something that I know a lot of people (especially physios) will disagree with - Be aware of orthotics.
Why do we need them? Is it because low arches (like mine) will become stronger if I support them? Will the orthotics allow my arches to flex and help absorb shocks? Is it to correct my foot and knee alignment? I can see a case for this if all I do is stand up on one spot all day... but I run up and down hills for god sake - EACH FOOT PLACEMENT IS DIFFERENT. Is a fell shoe the best place for an orthotic?

After 2 years of superfeet etc and having the physio get really confused when I told him that my road shoes are designed for overpronators - so why do I need inserts? I decided to go it alone. This is totally my own opinion -basically what I've done is change my running style. I no longer heel strike like I used to; I run barefoot from time to time to remind myself how to run naturally and properly, I do "arch lifting" exercises like the yoga mountain posture and most importantly I've come to the conclusion that all this "tech" in our shoes is a load of marketing bulls**t. Why do we need peices of rubber and plastic to help us do what our feet have been doing on their own for eons. We have evolved to run - I think that is agreed fact. In the last micro second of human existance we've decided to start messing around with what is already an efficient machine all in the name of selling things that cost us a bloody fortune.

Rant over. Check out chi running and runningbarefoot.org for inspiration.

Couldn't agree more Twister - an efficient machine so long as your biomechanics are as they should be.
Some of us have a few design faults though that we need to correct!!

[Twister]

I know what you are saying. I used to have feet that pointed noticeably outwards, I believe that this is the correct definition of pronation - leading to an inward roll from the ankle and overall susceptibility to injury through poor bio-mechanics. Obviously an orthotic would help in this situation, but IMO not solve the problem.
For me the best thing I ever did for my running was take classes in yoga and tai-chi. In both disciplines there are basic postures where you have to stand up straight with you body in perfect alignment - toes, ankles, knees, hips etc. This has helped me realign my feet and become conscious of what I am doing (I think about nearly every foot strike sometimes).
When I stand now I imagine space under my arches (in yoga you are meant to lift them up and feel "prana" - energy flowing beneath them) I rest more on the outer edge of my feet and try not to "slouch" on to my arches. IMO this has built up strength in my foot - where as an orthotic does all the work for me - meaning my muscles, tendons and ligaments are not required to do anything. Perhaps this is the fundamental that we are all missing, we buy things to make our life easier where as perhaps life should be a little rough?
My biggest hobby horse at the moment is EVA cushioning in our shoes - What is 15mm of rubber going to do for us apart from encourage a harder foot strike? Whats wrong with taking the shock out of running by bending our legs a little more? If you run a bit without shoes you will see what I mean - no more hard, heel first foot-strikes, legs are more like springs, knees are more like hinges and the body is more like a perfect running machine.

[irontongue]

Thanks for the response some interesting views. I think I'm going to give a generic pair a go before commiting to a custom pair. Isahll definatley follow up the nhs lead. I have always (10yrs) run without any support until recently visiting the physio for a recurrent cal / knee problem. They reckon that one of my arches is collapsing when I run. They have also recommended a lot of cor strenghtening exercise etc - These seem to be the kind of thing everyone should do. I am panicing about not being able to run hard again tho'.

[Clive]

Have said it before and will say again, we're all different. Some design to live for ages in Darwinian terms and some that would be long gone!!! I am the latter. I first started using orthotics in fell shoes in the 80s.......at the time the thinking was to hold up the arch and not look at the causes. I believe that the thinking now is that if you're still in your 20s then by exercises, the arches can be strengthened again, and made to rise again. Sadly, after the 20s for most of us we are left with flat feet. I guess I was too early with the orthotics. I discovered that when I run off road without them I get real pains in the ankles.....also when I bike I get similar and up the side of the legs, and sometime knees. No pain when I wear them. So I guess my body is now used to wearing orthotics, probably never do without them sadly.
I do like the idea of glueing handmade ones into my innov8s, good one.
Guess what suits some doesn't necessarily suit all.

[OneHillWonder]

Twister & Clive that is really interesting to read

Whenever the subject of orthotics comes up there are so many different views and what is right for one person is not right for another. However exercies and stregthening the arches is not something I've noticed people mention.

I have custom orthotics. They are brilliant and before I had them it had got to the point where could not run more than a mile without being in complete agony and not even being able to walk to get home! That was not just on roads either. My orthotics changed that so quickly and I've been fine since, however I can see how then your feet become dependent on them, and maybe I need to not rely on them so much.

I should try some arch strengthening exercises now before I reach my 30s Clive!

[Clive]

Hi OneHillWonder
The exercises I was told were the one where you clench your toes around a ball of paper and hold then loosen......progressing onto a ball, maybe tennis ball, building up reps and holding time. The other one was to use a band tied to a radiator and then wrapped around big toe and to pull big toe towards you (sitting down) and away from the radiator. Hope this helps, but I am not a podiatrist, it was one in Leeds that got me doing this. Interestingly the podiatrist didn't think much of the idea of o's for cycling as he said the movement didn't require them.......that was only a few years ago, and even then I knew his speciality might just be walking and running more than cycling as I always got pain when cycling flat footed. Now I believe that this science of orthotics in cycling is just starting to emerge. Most I know don't use them but for me, the usual pains if I dont. I also needed orthotics to cushion my sessamoids!!!! The two small pulley bones under big toe ball joint.....too much fell-running in walshes going uphill and pronating = running on said big toe ball joints = ballet dancer's injury!!! Have had it for about 4 years but after year out from running for ankle op in December and two months off the bike, it has, at the moment, gone!
You have certainly made me think more about DIY!!!!! Thanks
Anyway, I'll stop waffling now.
Happy orthotics.

[OneHillWonder]

Thanks Clive, I will give them a go

[TheHeathens]

I'm going to say something that I know a lot of people (especially physios) will disagree with - Be aware of orthotics.
Why do we need them? Is it because low arches (like mine) will become stronger if I support them? Will the orthotics allow my arches to flex and help absorb shocks? Is it to correct my foot and knee alignment? I can see a case for this if all I do is stand up on one spot all day... but I run up and down hills for god sake - EACH FOOT PLACEMENT IS DIFFERENT. Is a fell shoe the best place for an orthotic?

After 2 years of superfeet etc and having the physio get really confused when I told him that my road shoes are designed for overpronators - so why do I need inserts? I decided to go it alone. This is totally my own opinion -basically what I've done is change my running style. I no longer heel strike like I used to; I run barefoot from time to time to remind myself how to run naturally and properly, I do "arch lifting" exercises like the yoga mountain posture and most importantly I've come to the conclusion that all this "tech" in our shoes is a load of marketing bulls**t. Why do we need peices of rubber and plastic to help us do what our feet have been doing on their own for eons. We have evolved to run - I think that is agreed fact. In the last micro second of human existance we've decided to start messing around with what is already an efficient machine all in the name of selling things that cost us a bloody fortune.

Rant over. Check out chi running and runningbarefoot.org for inspiration.

I'm very surprised that a physio advised you to get orthotics to be honest. It pretty much goes against everything that they believe in (strengthening and prevention).

Podiatrist yes.

Physio No.

[Twister]

I'm very surprised that a physio advised you to get orthotics to be honest. It pretty much goes against everything that they believe in (strengthening and prevention).

Podiatrist yes.

Physio No.

Yeah, local chap who claims to be a runner too, and has sorted out "nearly all of the harriers at one point" - basically I wont go back to him as I confused him with a question about putting orthotics in road shoes designed for overpronators, I don't think he realised that there were different types of shoes... Anyway, I tried the off the peg 3 quarter length "gaitors" that he got me, hated them as they are designed to go on top of the existing footbed. I went on to superfeet for a year and felt much better, concentrated on alignment and excercises etc. After an intense period of training I basicaly buggered my ankle and re-assesed my complete running style. After reading articles about bear-foot running, pose and the chi-running book, I have tried to go it alone and have been fine now for about 6 months, my arches are noticebly stronger, perhaps not more "archy" but everything feels good. more over I've re-learnt my running style thanks to chi-running and barefooting, I reckon the fundamental is not to heel strike - it's the main theme running through all of the alternative running philosiphies. Lastly - I firmly believe that todays running shoes are far to built up and padded - thus allowing our feet to become lazy and un-trained.

I'm 33 BTW.