What will be, will be
What will be, will be
With regard to cairns: It seems to me they're ok because they are a traditional form of marker for wayfarers in the British Hills. I may be wrong, they may only have started appearing in the fifties or something, but they're part of the landscape for me. Same in the Alps after the initial shock of seeing paint daubed on boulders I just accepted it as part of that wayfaring tradition. I had a laugh at some of the places where it had been deemed essential to put ladders, rungs and cable handrails but then thought these mountains have been travelled over since Otzi's time (can't do an umlaut) for commercial, social, industrial and military reasons and aids to efficient travel are part of that landscape. Now if the consensus is that Broad Stand needs to be made safe for access then for goodness sake stop messing about with bolts and pretending it's a place for adventurers with ropes, just cement a ladder in place. It'll probably still scare a few people even then
Any hard wear placed on broad stand would be chopped within hours..it is a scramble/easy climb. There is no argument at all for changing its status from that. If hardwear was placed there then we'd also see hardwear on the numerous other easy yet exposed scrambles throughout the UK.Originally Posted by Guick Dotto
An easy scramble for a mountain leader perhaps but others will disagree
A painted marker usually with a number to mark the route you are on may be ok but a cairn unless on a summit or at a major path junction and marked on a map is not. They don't tell you what route/path you are on or aid navigation unless you know where you are. One of the reasons they fly rock in to make paths in the peak/Wales/Lakes etc is because by using stone from the location adds hugely to erosion. By making a cairn you are taking rock from where it should be to some where it shouldn't, it also attacts people who don't know where they are to follow blindly a pile of stones that can't possibly tell them where they are, this also causes erosion.
I know, but then I can't climb Extreme graded climbs yet that's no argument for them to be altered/bolted.
Personally I'm not a big fan of soloing so I'd probably avoid Broad Stand myself anyway, especially during a run when my head just wouldn't be in the game.
Cairns in the bg
there was another thread but I can't find it.
I'd agree with Iain here. I have done it but it's years since I climbed at extreme level. I would take any group I led up via another route unless specifically requested and then It would have to be a very small group 2-3 clients and be weather dependant.
But would there be as much fuss if they were bolted?
Using this kind of logic, however, much of the current erosion in the lakes is actually the fault of Alfred Wainright and Bob Graham (or at least those who publicise and encourage)A painted marker usually with a number to mark the route you are on may be ok but a cairn unless on a summit or at a major path junction and marked on a map is not. They don't tell you what route/path you are on or aid navigation unless you know where you are. One of the reasons they fly rock in to make paths in the peak/Wales/Lakes etc is because by using stone from the location adds hugely to erosion. By making a cairn you are taking rock from where it should be to some where it shouldn't, it also attacts people who don't know where they are to follow blindly a pile of stones that can't possibly tell them where they are, this also causes erosion.
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