UKA Relays

[The Safety Officer]

Well done SO, I'm so jealous just you wait till I catch you up (in years that is)

Did you remember the book this time??

top effort

Thanks Ian.
In Dark peak we are trying address the issue of safety on the fells. For anyone that's interested, if you go to our website and select the 'Safety page', there are links to a few articles some runners might find interesting. All comments or suggestions gratefully accepted

[marrow]

The lack of consistency in applying the rules is laughable. How can the first four at Tebay blatantly miss the first checkpoint (which was clearly visible, marshalled by about 10 people, with 2 flags and a couple of quad bikes thrown in for good measure) and not suffer DQ, but then when the first three can't find a checkpoint at the FRAs (which was in thick clag, not where it said on the map and all three runners had a good go at finding it) the ENTIRE TEAM is DQ'd!?!?!? Can someone please explain this to me because I think it stinks.

At Tebay there was a clear advantage in missing Checkpoint 1 as it cut off a climb. Yesterday there was absolutely NO advantage gained by any of the leading teams, and in fact they LOST time trying to find the checkpoint.

This has had real ramifications and while I'm not saying we should apply different rules to the top teams, I think it's a bit different to finishing mid-table or being DQ'd. For instance the medals in both the English Champs AND NOW the FRA relays have now been directly affected by marshalls' / race officials' discretionary decisions.

All I'm asking for is consistency.

Your statement that the checkpoint wasn't where it should have been is completely wrong - after all, not only did everyone else on leg 4 find it, so did everyone on leg 1, who went to the same point. It was not difficult to find - "fence junction" is as clear a description as you can have. As to finding no time advantage, there was a clear advantage to be had by cutting to the right too early.

As to consistency in upholding the rules, I couldn't agree more. But when exactly do you think consistency should begin? After this weekend?

[IainR]

The weather conditions yesterday were server but I still saw numerous runners on leg two in vests and not using a map and compass. Fell running isn't a fair weather sport and it's our own personal responsibility to make sure we have the adequate mountain skills

So what?

I looked at the map, memorised, ran around, never used it..

Isn't map memory a navigation skill. It certainly is a skill I talk about when running courses, which as a professional guide is something we do quite a bit of...

And in VESTS..you say VESTS..my god what ever next..wearing trainers in the hills...

[not mad enough]

Having run in leg 1 in great conditions and with people to follow, I felt a bit left out of all the claggy fun!

Really a great day out - thanks to all the organisers and marshalls.

[IainR]

Your statement that the checkpoint wasn't where it should have been is completely wrong - after all, not only did everyone else on leg 4 find it, so did everyone on leg 1, who went to the same point. It was not difficult to find - "fence junction" is as clear a description as you can have. As to finding no time advantage, there was a clear advantage to be had by cutting to the right too early.

As to consistency in upholding the rules, I couldn't agree more. But when exactly do you think consistency should begin? After this weekend?

I don't know if the CP was in the right position, I spoke to people who said it wasn't and people who said it was.

TBH though the reliability of race maps is again an issue..

Look at Tebay, wasn't that the argument there.

And look Leg 2 yesterday. We were all warned over the Tanoy that the CP was 100ft/m? out. Not much but in that clag it was enough. If you heard it wasn't a problem, most if not all probably did (I didn't hear of any issues with it), but that could have also had big ramifications.

I'm not big on flagged courses at all. But I do think there's a time and a place, and I just think the relays are a time and a place..

This stuff like 'Dark Peak true fell running' is just rubbish and condescending clap trap.

Personally I think here they had to DSQ the teams (regardless of Tebay), the rules are simple, had DP/Borrowdale/Calder Valley put in a complaint if the first result had been allowed to stand I think the RO's would have had to upheld their complaint.

[Witton Park]

Someone mentioned Mercia's time on the NAV leg - I'd be interested to see it.

Leg3: Orienteering Pairs– 5.6 m/1410’ estimated winning time: 60 min

was the published figure.

I did 8 miles - even if you did it "as the Crow Flies" it would have been over 6 miles and I would say the shortest feasible way of getting around it was 7.5.

[Witton Park]

I don't know if the CP was in the right position, I spoke to people who said it wasn't and people who said it was.

Ian, I think that those who think it is in the wrong position are those that are not in the right position!

[IainR]

Someone mentioned Mercia's time on the NAV leg - I'd be interested to see it.

Leg3: Orienteering Pairs– 5.6 m/1410’ estimated winning time: 60 min

was the published figure.

I did 8 miles - even if you did it "as the Crow Flies" it would have been over 6 miles and I would say the shortest feasible way of getting around it was 7.5.

How do you know you did 8 miles? Didn't have a GPS on did you?? :-)

Re Mercia's time. I think it was just shy of the hour (I think all th efirst 3 legs were just shy of their predicted times), 2 class runners I think. I don't know the orienteer but he's supposed to be some hot shot and Andy Davies is a 2:27 marathon runner.

[Witton Park]

How do you know you did 8 miles? Didn't have a GPS on did you?? :-)

Re Mercia's time. 2 class runners I think. I don't know the orienteer but he's supposed to be some hot shot and Andy Davies is a 2:27 marathon runner.

I Google Earthed where we went afterwards and we covered 8 miles including an error at CP1 - and straight-lining all the checkpoints comes out at 6.2 miles without taking in to account the flagged section at the end.

[RichT]

There are so many things to get right when organising the UKA Relays and I think CFR did a superb job. I thoroughly enjoyed the NAV leg and think it had a good balance of route finding, tricky navigation (under the conditions) and fast running. The facilities and food were very good for this type of event.

I hope the injured (marshall / runner(s)) are OK and make a speedy recovery. Well done CFR; thanks very much.

I think there might have been a bit of ambiguity with some of the route instructions (my family were out for a walk and heard Rob Hope getting upset with some of the other front runners for cutting a corner and not going to the GR on the track so that they could then follow the flags up Knock Murton on Leg 4). I think that having the routes checked by several experienced fell runners unfamiliar with the area well in advance is a good idea as it could show up areas of confusion.

I think the disqualification was a very clear and correct decision - you have to dib at all the checkpoints. THe fact that a dubious decision has been made elsewhere doesn't mean that it should become the norm.

I'm not big on flagged courses at all. But I do think there's a time and a place, and I just think the relays are a time and a place..

This stuff like 'Dark Peak true fell running' is just rubbish and condescending clap trap.

I don't agree that the courses should be flagged - the navigation, reccees, ability to find the best route under pressure - are what makes fellrunning different and special (to me at any rate). If people just want to see who's the fastest at running over hilly courses I'm sure there must be marked mountain/trail/cross country races. However, there is a place for flags/tape or whatever if you need to clearly direct runners for environmental / access reasons.

And Iain, I don't really think that the fact that someone from Dark Peak thought that the event was proper fellrunning was really rubbish and condescending clap trap. It sounds more like an enthusiastic appreciation of a good day out. I don't know where Safety Officer was coming from with the vests and no map/compass out though!? Everyone had more clothes, map and compass with them for if they needed them. Personally, I'm too soft so needed a Helly under my vest but I'm not very fast.