LDWA events

[ChevinbyTorchlight]

Blimey,

All this talk of shortcuts and cheating.....on an LDWA event.....whatever next!!

Did this for the first time and had a great time, really scenic route although shame it was all on hard tracks or road, my legs were sore for most of it. More than grateful for the food at the end, having spent just over 3 hours getting by on sweet stuff. Great job done by the organisers and the folk in the kitchhen & at CP's etc

What is the issue with Barden Bridge? From the instructions, I thought you had to follow the road from the previous checkpoint, down and over the bridge, and then for about 200 yards after the bridge until you turn left on to the Dales Way.

What were the controversial alternatives?

[Twinkletoes]

Where were you on the route when you got 'verbals' from a farmer?

[Brotherton Lad]

There are lots of running cultures. I've done lots of cross country and orienteering, mainly military, fell running, road racing, trail runs and hashing since the late 70s, well over 30,000 miles in total. Each have different codes. I hope I didn't upset too many by my choice of route but I do believe it was entirely within the rules and sportsmanlike. Or gamesmanship to use another word.
As a recent LDWA member I like their challenges because they make for excellent training runs over a described route in a relaxed environment and the food is great. It's not a race, there's no finish line, the official timekeeping is accurate to about 90 seconds, there aren't any prizes and actually you don't necessarily get to see any results. Long may it remain so.

[Twinkletoes]

Dont get me wrong, I agree with you, but the trespassing over farmers private land is a big no no, I'd hope you would all agree.

[Brotherton Lad]

I passed a farmer who was walking south from High Skyrenholme by the footbridge, about 60, flat cap, green tweedy coat and plastic carrier bag. A few minutes later I heard some good Dales language and saw a gang of about 8 runners in the fields just NE of CP6. They were heading NE for the proper path over the beck but appeared to have got into the field a bit early. No advantage to them, but annoying for the farmer, I imagine. Probably a group finishing in the 3.40 area.

Chevin bT - the alternative is to stay on the road. I run with two dislocated toes so I hate road running in fell shoes. Ouch!

Twinkle Toes - trespassing is not on and endangers the sport we all enjoy so much.

Final edit - I'm also very grateful for John's organisation and the efforts of all the helpers. It was an excellent day out

[#1Spookster]

I passed a farmer who was walking south from High Skyrenholme by the footbridge, about 60, flat cap, green tweedy coat and plastic carrier bag. A few minutes later I heard some good Dales language and saw a gang of about 8 runners in the fields just NE of CP6. They were heading NE for the proper path over the beck but appeared to have got into the field a bit early. No advantage to them, but annoying for the farmer, I imagine. Probably a group finishing in the 3.40 area.

Chevin bT - the alternative is to stay on the road. I run with two dislocated toes so I hate road running in fell shoes. Ouch!

Twinkle Toes - trespassing is not on and endangers the sport we all enjoy so much.

Final edit - I'm also very grateful for John's organisation and the efforts of all the helpers. It was an excellent day out

Think I saw the farmer you are talking about in the same field, but he seemed in a good mood as he laughed as I struggled through one of those awkward stiles with a spring-loaded gate on the top. He described the stile as "a good old National Park job!"
I guess the group in front of me had turned off the track too early as I seemed to close up on them a bit there. Never caught them up later mind - too knackered!

[Brotherton Lad]

Sounds like the same bloke, very pleasant, if you're not 'on his land'. Quite right too.
I was in the canary yellow shirt with red sleeves and red gloves. It's the Gran Canaria marathon shirt from January. I was a DNF at 14 miles (had caught a cold, typical runner's excuse) so now I wear it on long training runs just to kill the ghost.

I like those gates, but when I'm tired they always trap my back foot and I find I'm cursing myself aloud for inefficiency and incompetence.

[Jez Hellewell]

Sorry, I didn't mean verbals. Let's just say he made sure I didn't trespass on his land (which I entirely agree with) & that I took the correct route. Sure enough my brother-in-law got a whack on the heel from the spring loaded gate that you're talking about ! As someone said earlier, great "training run" & as such I don't feel I've cheated anyone by not taking on the river section (Dalesway), maybe just myself. Which I can live with.

[DazTheSlug]

Thoroughly enjoyed my first Troller's
great to meet Mountain Goatess and Behind You (who overtook me on the way down to CP5!)
ran the first hour and a half with clairster, gassing so much we missed the self-clip CP1
had a couple of bad patches, but recovered both times and finished feeling almost human in 5:40

Many Thanks to John Sparshatt for organising such a tremendous event for 18 years

[discochesney]

I think the shortcutting issue spoils the LDWA events a little bit as far as runners are concerned. I know 'people are only cheating themselves etc' argument is fairly sound, but there is a lot of ambiguity and it does disencourage you for some events which are actually a good challenge to be raced (Tough Guy is an unfortunate example).

Shortcuts which follow actual rights of way and are public access like near barden reservoir seem natural. But running the road from Barden (bypassing the riverside path) is against the spirit of the route. The first time I ran it, the guy infront dissapeared and gained a good minute off me and I was pretty annoyed, but I did this the last couple of times as I didnt want to be disadvantaged.

Cutting the fields at after the next check point is clearly wrong.

More worryingly, there is a lot of evidence that high placed runners ran the road from Burnsall, or certainly a variation which avoided the last river section - which is surely going too far.

I know these things are primarily walking events, but some guidance for runners would be a good idea - if its said in black and white that shortcuts to x,y,z result in time penalty of DQ (certainly for private access land shortcuts), that may be enough rather than other marshall positions.

It would encourage more participant runners, and more funds raised Im sure. These issues seem to crop up with many other LDWA events, Rombalds stride figuring a mass of route variations.

Not just LDWA events suffer from this problem - Some fell races which are route based are subject to some ambiguity on shortcuts - Wharfedale marathon being a good example.

Anyone have a copy of the results for Trollers?