Orthotics and fell shoes

[Twister]

I can see for myself that it is impossible for the pads at the outside and inside of my feet, just behind the toes, to contact the ground at the same time. This means my feet have to keep rocking and twisting, which upsets my knees, ankles, and sometimes contributes to spells of plantar fasciitis. I do massage and stretch my feet to try and keep them from getting any stiffer.

Fair enough. I guess I'm bringing too much of a natural running agenda to this, for some it maybe a useful aid, fair point.

You say though, that its impossible for the pads at the outside and inside of the feet to make contact at the same time... If you look at slow motion of a barefoot running gait, you will see that the foot never makes contact all at once and that it lands on the outside edge and rolls inward to the ball of the foot, the heel then kisses the ground. So there is a rolling motion of some sort.

I am extremely distrustful of private podiatrists, who do indeed seem invariably to prescribe costly orthotics whatever the problem. That doesn't mean orthotics are NEVER the solution. Mine enable the whole ball of my foot to support my weight, which is the arrangement nature intended. I am all for stretching and strengthening, but faced with months and years sidelined by injury, I'm glad to take the instant fix I've been offered. I am also grateful to my trekking poles, spectacles, sports bra and many other unnatural "crutches".

Another fair point, I have no experience with sports bras. I have used poles and am myopic. As for specs, I like to think that people with short sight "evolved" to progress humankind... Think about the advances made that require an eye capable of viewing things in the minute - clockwork for example.

At this point I will get off my high horse about orthotics and never mention them again. Besides, a greater evil are the gait analysis treadmills in sport shoe shops....

[Alexandra]

a greater evil are the gait analysis treadmills in sport shoe shops....

Fascinating - what's wrong with them?

[Twister]

This is more for the road runners out there but we've all had a go at some point I'm sure.

You jump on the tread mill, start running and then the "qualified" shop assistant prescribes you the most expensive running shoe to correct your over-pronation/suprination/etc.

What's wrong with them? They are a sneaky marketing device that convinces the unaware and new to running that they have something wrong with them and only a shoe can correct it. Great example of pseudo science. Great way to increase profits keep runners returning to the shop every 6 months for a brand new pair of shoes.

Running shop centred gait analysis and Runnersworld magazine sum up all that's wrong with running at the moment. (Don't get me started on Runnersworld, the thread has been hijacked enough).

[ZootHornRollo]

Twister, do you think there's a place for gait analysis done by someone properly qualified though?

Or would you say it's never useful when deciding what sort of shoes to buy?

[Twister]

I think that the ones you get in the running shops with running brand names attached to them are there for the sole purpose of selling shoes.

Another thing is that the old dreadmill forces us to run in a different way to which we would do normally, so how can it really be a good indicator?

I think humankind managed to run quite all right for 100's thousands of years before technology entered in to it.

[mr brightside]

I think that the ones you get in the running shops with running brand names attached to them are there for the sole purpose of selling shoes.

Another thing is that the old dreadmill forces us to run in a different way to which we would do normally, so how can it really be a good indicator?

I think humankind managed to run quite all right for 100's thousands of years before technology entered in to it.

Don't be worried about hijacking the thread Twister it's an open forum and i'm finding your skepticism of things interesting. I agree about your distrust of gait analysis at places like Go Outdoors, whilst obvious running tendancies can be detected by them i don't think it's something i'd trust personally. I'd cirtainly trust my Podiatrist though it seems to be a bit of a hit and miss science to me, i was started with a 2 degree wedge and advised to expect a 40% improvement, which never arrived. When he increased the wedge to 4 degrees and said it was normal to increase the wedge in these circumstances i thought, hmmm here we go; but it worked. He also explained that my problem was related to abnormalities in the way my Tibia and Fibula have developed.

Has something happened to you to make you distrustful or do you just believe in other ways of approaching things? Hope that question's not too intrusive.

[Dru]

I too am not a fan of running shop gait analysis. When I bought my first pair of 'proper' running shoes approx 7 years ago from Sweatshop, the shop person looked at my feet, had me run up and down the shop a few times and I ended up with motion control shoes that never gave me a problem.

Fast forward a few years and after time off to have kids I went to Up & Running expecting a similar thing. They had me run on a treadmill and declared I was a neutral runner. Not being wise about shoes at that point I duly started running in neutral shoes and had no end of problems. By the time I realised my old shoes had been motion control I'd already gone down the orthotics route.

I now use orthotics in all running shoes and wouldn't even consider running without them off-road.

Twister - we 'spoke' last year on the barefoot thread. My VFF haven't come out of the cupboard since last July (had a long injury and been too scared to try them again) but I still think barefoot's the way to go if you have the time to make the change.

[Twister]

Yes, I was sold off the peg orthotics for my low arches by the last physio I saw and spent about two years in an injury/run/injury cycle. It culminated with a very bad ankle injury that laid me off for 3 months.

That was just about the time that I started learning about natural running, pose technique, chi running, barefoot etc. and have sort of combined the philosophies of these in my running today. It has been about 16 months since I started down this road, I've got rid of the inserts and very gradually re-built my mileage and now only run in very minimal shoes. I've also done a bit of balance and postural exercise, and try and "pick up" my arches, I try not to "slouch" on them if that makes sense.

I also spent a long time working on my knee and foot alignment, gradually bringing my feet inward towards a more neutral stance, tai-chi helped a lot with this, and bodyweight squats.

my original point was made as I know that there are a growing number of runners out there who are making a good transition to a more natural running style and I think that there is a lot of marketing around "fixing" runners problems where a gradual rehab would be better and perhaps less costly.

[Vinegar Hill]

Hi,

I have been having problems with pain in my calfs. My physiotherapist has suggested that I see a podiatrist who I am going to see on Tuesday. I suspect she will prescribe orthotics and I want to know if it is worth going down that route (and if it is worth the expence). I know that many people do not recommend them for the fells, but I would use them mostly for off road training on tracks, grass, small hills; nothing to technical at the moment and also on the road .

Thanks.

[wycoller]

Been lost of discussion on this over the years - may be worth searching orthotics.

Personally I couldn't run without them including on true fell races.