What Are Junk Miles

[CL]

Back in the dim and distant past I've had opportunities to train with some seriously quick runners - predominantly road and track. The statement Nik makes above is very true of a lot of the UK athletes I've trained with, but is not true of the foreign athletes - they all, without question, do very slow mileage and very fast speed work. One Russian Olympic champion refused to do long runs with us because we ran too fast, yet kicked our arses in sessions.

Two of the foreign athletes in question have run 2.06 for a marathon, yet in the past decade only two Brits have broken 2.10. Which ones have the training methods right?

Might not just be down to training methods there Dom. So it doesn't prove your contention.

[saz]

If they are foolish questions why can you not answer them?

People with dystexia struggle to spell and struggle to learn to spell, but keep on mocking

[Graham Breeze]

I'm sorry I've got to say this Saz, but if a degree level sport scientist can't even spell 'correlation,' then they probably aren't going to understand anything of value in sports science.

In my experience people who say "I'm sorry I've got to say this" mean no such thing but are hypocrites who are about to relish what they "must" say.

And as for Sarah's spelling: well presumably she managed to spell aetiology correctly when it was part of the title of her PhD: a word which, I suggest, most Forum readers would struggle even to define.

[A.P.E Knott]

All I can say on this thread is if anyone dares to say that Lydiard is wrong about anything goes right down in my book.
Just to set the record straight regarding Lydiard and milage.
1 He never recomended easy milage for anything other than "Shake out" sessions usualy easy runs on a morning ,He said these runs "sent you body a message".
Remember we are talking relative hear ,easy morning runs to athelets he trained were around 6.30 mmp pace.
2 His whole training philosophy was to buil up to 100 mpw of miles relative to the pace each athelete was capable of running. i.e an athelet may start at 8.00 mmp and end up running 7 mmp. For his top runners this was 6.00 mmp down to 5.30 and faster.
On another topic ,our friend CL ,a well read and educated man but he does seem to get the fundamentals wrong.
He has mentioned two coaches ,Lydiard and Cerruty recently and in both cases been wrong.
I do not have a PHD in aything other than knowing what I am talking about regarding the theories of the great coaches .

[nikalas]

Nice try but the best bit about post 24 is the word 'and' right in the middle.

You're not doing very well on this one CL... all a bit desperate sounding and not a lot of substance.

[nikalas]

Yes I did but I've not got a phd in people names, and I did after my initial mistake proceed to wind you up some what. Now the questions Saz asked me are foolish and really don't deserve an answer.

I don't think it's a foolish question at all, fundamental really and, if it's so foolish, you should be able to put it to bed quickly and easily. Dyslexia isn't something to mock really.

[Fleeter]

I need a beer after reading all that...

[Deadlegs]

CL you are a quack. Every forum needs one!

[saz]

Christopher

I am unsure what your issue is other than my spelling and where I am being foolish?

You stated
Lydiard did say something to that effect, but he was wrong. The slower miles that athletes do have no effect on aerobic condition. If you were correct in your assertion then ultra-distance runners I.e. those who shuffle round the Bob Graham, would have the highest V02 maxes in the world.

This to me is a little ambiguous, and I therefore asked for clarity re do you believe that VO2 max equates to aerobic condition
?

You also stated that endurance drains vitial chemical resources, but without stating what and I am genuinely interested in knowing what these are

In the warm up thread you quite rightly took Niklas to task over producing solid evidence to support his claims, but now you seem to be backing off doing so yourself?

Saz

[CL]

All I can say on this thread is if anyone dares to say that Lydiard is wrong about anything goes right down in my book.
Just to set the record straight regarding Lydiard and milage.
1 He never recomended easy milage for anything other than "Shake out" sessions usualy easy runs on a morning ,He said these runs "sent you body a message".
Remember we are talking relative hear ,easy morning runs to athelets he trained were around 6.30 mmp pace.
2 His whole training philosophy was to buil up to 100 mpw of miles relative to the pace each athelete was capable of running. i.e an athelet may start at 8.00 mmp and end up running 7 mmp. For his top runners this was 6.00 mmp down to 5.30 and faster.
On another topic ,our friend CL ,a well read and educated man but he does seem to get the fundamentals wrong.
He has mentioned two coaches ,Lydiard and Cerruty recently and in both cases been wrong.
I do not have a PHD in aything other than knowing what I am talking about regarding the theories of the great coaches .

Mr Knott. At one time I would have defended Arthur Lydiard against any criticisms. Now though I see his errors clearly. His fundamental error was in assuming that everybody requires 100miles per week of running close to their maximum steady state, with up to the same again in supplementary jogging, during the conditioning phase. This conditioning period was followed by 6 weeks of 6 days a week hill springing sessions on a 1in 3.

That was how he trained his athletes in the 1960s when 'Run to the top' was published. In 1978 he published another book, which incidently is a collectors item which I have a copy off, called 'Run the Lydiard way.' In that book his fundamental philosophy was the same, but when you look at the schedules they were nothing like what he was preaching in 1960.

Gone was the advice everyone from 800m to the marathon should run 100miles a week +100miles a week of jogging. Instead if you look at the training schedule he wrote for middle distance runners it amounted to about 70 miles per week. Gone also was the daily hill sessions.

In that book he also defended Lasse Viren against blood doping allegations. Lydiard didn't believe that blood doping would work. I doubt whether he later undertood the significance of EPO and it's power to turn middle and distance events in to sprints.

So there you have it. Oh one other thing. That story of the rabbits warming-up was in Lydiard's book. It was a story told to Lydiard about Cerutty by an American coach who heard Cerutty lecture.