To drink or not to drink

[Mike T]

If I could run a marathon as fast as Paula then I don't think I'd need to stop for a pee either!!

But I'm not even going to get into this debate as I know what works for me, as I suspect do many others here.

I too used to think that drinking worked for me - and - in my first 7 London marathons, did what was suggested and drank like everyone else. Difficult not to, particularly with 2 of the main sponsors being a bottled water company and a sports drink manufacturer. Then Berlin for the first time - water in cups, not bottles, and bitter sports drink - took very little in - about a cup of liquid all told - and did not suffer at all. Berlin for the second time, drank nothing, best time for 8 years. I have continued to drink far less than most of those around me, often nothing, and as far as I can tell, I actually do better in the longer events than I do in the shorter ones. As I have tried to explain, there is a scientific basis for what I do, and it does not work for everyone. Do you really know what works for you, or are you actually, with the best of intentions, handicapping yourself? I regularly run with people who used to carry drink on their long runs - they now know it was not needed.

[Stolly]

I am never one to carry drink needlessly but Mike T what (clearly) works for you would never work for me. In the summer, on a hot sunny day even, I can do a hard 10 miles in the hills (say 1:45 hours or so) without having to worry about carrying drink. But up the distance to say 15 miles and, without drink, I'd burn out. First off I'm a sweaty blighter (think of a hill running version of Lee Evans) and secondly the hills in the Yorkshire Dales are totally exposed without a shred of shade - on a hot day its like being in a very green and grassy desert! After long run outs my face, around the eyes and behind my ears especially, is actually salt encrusted! Therefore I typically carry one (normal size) bottle of drink for a 15 mile run and two for 20 - for something like the 3 peaks in the the heat and sun 3 bottles are needed but I know where streams are for top ups and would just carry two.

And obviously running solo in the hills where you have no bugger else around to call on, its pretty important to know what you need on the drinks front. Its a bit different running a road race where in my experience there seem to be water stops all over the place.

[Rob Furness]

I did 20 yesterday on a fairly warm sunny day and took about a litre in my bumbag bladder and had about half of that left at the end. I don't tend to need huge amounts of fluid when running, but I do need some

[Mike T]

I am never one to carry drink needlessly but Mike T what (clearly) works for you would never work for me. In the summer, on a hot sunny day even, I can do a hard 10 miles in the hills (say 1:45 hours or so) without having to worry about carrying drink. But up the distance to say 15 miles and, without drink, I'd burn out. First off I'm a sweaty blighter (think of a hill running version of Lee Evans) and secondly the hills in the Yorkshire Dales are totally exposed without a shred of shade - on a hot day its like being in a very green and grassy desert! After long run outs my face, around the eyes and behind my ears especially, is actually salt encrusted! Therefore I typically carry one (normal size) bottle of drink for a 15 mile run and two for 20 - for something like the 3 peaks in the the heat and sun 3 bottles are needed but I know where streams are for top ups and would just carry two.

And obviously running solo in the hills where you have no bugger else around to call on, its pretty important to know what you need on the drinks front. Its a bit different running a road race where in my experience there seem to be water stops all over the place.

Have you tried weighing yourself before and after one of your 10 mile runs - naked/empty bladder both times - to get a true idea of your fluid requirements? Remember weight loss and fluid loss are not the same thing - if you lose say 1kg then your fluid deficit is less than this, so less than 1 litre, BUT to refill your glycogen stores AND make up any fluid deficit will involve taking in more than 1 litre. Difficult to come up with a good analogy but think of a car with 2 petrol tanks, one a reserve - the reserve prevents the normal tank from becoming empty so that up to a point the engine continues to run - but at the end of any significant journey both tanks need refilling. Using glycogen liberates/generates water, a bit like the reserve tank. Will it be enough to meet your sweat requirements? Varies from person to person, and of course with temperature/duration/etc.

[Mike T]

Their are 2 very similar questions that I could ask myself at the end of one of my zero intake marathons - with very different answers.

Firstly - how much should I have drunk during the event to prevent a drop off in my performance - in other words to prevent any significant change in my intravascular and extracellular volumes? Answer: zero. Proof? Of course I cannot prove it, but my times were fine, particularly Berlin II, and with very little slowing down in the second half.

Second question - how much do I now need to drink to restore my water/glycogen stores? Answer: Lots! - several litres - and of course loads of calories.

It is very easy for people to confuse these 2 questions, answer the second instead of the first, and condemn themselves to an inferior performance because of excessive intake - particularly if they have to carry their water supply with them.

Please note I am NOT saying everyone's intake should be zero - far from it, but I think the average runner drinks too much, to their detriment, and this applies particularly to those who carry their own supplies over hilly terrain.

[Rob Furness]

Mike - how exactly will your weight loss not be entirely due to fluid? I understand your glycogen stores will be depleted but where does that weight of glycogen go? I don't know much about what happens to glycogen during exercise (other than it being broken down into Glucose) but I can't work out where it goes to? Surely that weight can't disappear. My science is a bit rusty....

[Mountain Goatess]

You'll be proud of me Mike...I did 18 miles without a drink today...but only because in my rush to leave the house I forgot it! Could have done with a drink after about 15 miles...but then again I always feel tired, aching legs at that point! This was on tarmac...
I would consider it quite irresponsible to NOT take fluid with me on a solo hill run however!

[Mike T]

Mike - how exactly will your weight loss not be entirely due to fluid? I understand your glycogen stores will be depleted but where does that weight of glycogen go? I don't know much about what happens to glycogen during exercise (other than it being broken down into Glucose) but I can't work out where it goes to? Surely that weight can't disappear. My science is a bit rusty....

Some of the weight you lose is glycogen - converted to energy/heat, water, and CO2 - and you breath out the CO2; so you can lose a few % of your body weight without necessarily being dehydrated.

[Mike T]

You'll be proud of me Mike...I did 18 miles without a drink today...but only because in my rush to leave the house I forgot it! Could have done with a drink after about 15 miles...but then again I always feel tired, aching legs at that point! This was on tarmac...
I would consider it quite irresponsible to NOT take fluid with me on a solo hill run however!

Well done! I bet you did not miss it as much as you thought you were going to. I only did 16 miles today - not even thoughts of needing a drink.

[Mountain Goatess]

Well done! I bet you did not miss it as much as you thought you were going to. I only did 16 miles today - not even thoughts of needing a drink.

No not really....seeing as I needed a pee for most of the way round! :w00t: