DQ the cheats

[Sasquatch]

Will - Absolutely agree with Graham - insurance isn't there because of the litigious nature of our society these days, it's there in case there's an accident to someone involved in the race or to someone not involved who may be injured as a result of the race.

Of course it protects ROs from liability, but it is there for the competitors and officials as well.

I'm fortunate to have never have been involved in any claim as a RO, athlete, coach or parent, but it can happen and I'm sure there are numerous fair instances of why insurance is important.

A fair enough point WP and Graham.

[Mark G]

The 3 peaks yacht race has an extensive kit list,full waterproofs,long trousers,long sleeved top,fleece jacket,survival sack,sleeping bag,first aid kit,map compas torch + spare batteries,food,whistle,pen and paper,hat,gloves and adequate footwear. which i think is a bit ecessive as most of the race is run on roads and the mountain sections are all on very well defined tracks,piece of piss nav even in thick clagg and at night.

I forgot about this one - in 1977 we had to wear boots for this as well, so there have been some changes. Although we had to wear boots and had quite a kit list most of the actual rules still fitted on a few sheets of photocopied paper.

[Stolly]

I've done Fellsman several times and is a great race and really well organised - I dont agree with the mandatory rule of insisting on long trousers when it gets dark though. I even read of someone almost not being allowed to start one year due to not having enough tread on their shoes!

The positive thing about the fellsman is that every single participent is kit checked. But the long trousers rule at night is bonkers as is the running shoe tread check. Tread on that route means nothing really whilst surely comfort and no blisters is far more important?

The other thing about the fellsman is that their teaming up after dark rule, for safety, can ironically be quite dangerous in itself. When I ran it the first time in 2009 there was a huge wind and rainstorm in the early afternoon and crucially this storm blew away the tent at the Cray checkpoint. And when I got to Cray several hours later just as it got dark, even though I was running with two others, I had to hang around for 40 minutes before we could cajole a fourth person to join our team and meet the after dark grouping requirement. The tent like I said had been blown away and in its place they had a pig/sheep transporter thingy for runners to huddle in, fully open to the then prevailing wind and I became really, really cold hanging about. I think every one is a bit different but when I'm running I get hot and stopping for anytime, especially after dark and especially when the weather's cold, I can fast become chilled to the bone. Fortunately once we had 4 we were on our way again and I warmed up but, given another 15 minutes of hanging around and I could have become seriously cold and maybe have had to pull out of the race. Mind you even that would have meant hanging around in the pig trailer even longer. The teaming up rule though is overly onerous in requiring 4 together after dark - 2 I'm sure would be fine.

[Clash City Rocker]

You always looked to be carrying a bit too much to me

I thought the baggy running top hid that but obviously not!!

[rocksteady]

[QUOTE=IanDarkpeak;446653]yet in years i did it one team climbed Gable and another 2 teams were forced to bivi on the Ben! I know of other teams that have spent the night in Wasdale, and not just for a pint.

the kit list now is less than it used to be

does`nt this just strengthen the argument that it should be the runners ability that should be checked and not their kit?

[Clash City Rocker]

Where are the committee standing on the issue of runners who are too young talking on races that are too long for them, slightly separate issue but you see it all the time. How do we protect race organisers from juniors putting down the wrong age and taking on races that are too long. What happens if they are injured through doing this. Should the FRA be banning these juniors as well as they are "cheating" the RO?

[Graham Breeze]

Where are the committee standing on the issue of runners who are too young talking on races that are too long for them, slightly separate issue but you see it all the time. How do we protect race organisers from juniors putting down the wrong age and taking on races that are too long. What happens if they are injured through doing this. Should the FRA be banning these juniors as well as they are "cheating" the RO?

The FRA Committee treats such breaches, whether it is an underage runner (or the parent) or the RO, seriously and, without being specific on here, "action" has been taken in several cases.

The FRA Committee may take "whatever action is deemed necessary" (subject to appeal to UKA) and the procedure is set out on page 114 of the Calendar.

GB

[Clash City Rocker]

I know that, this time i was actually sticking up for the committee. I know there is a procedure in place I just wondered if it was happening and whether there was any reporting of it or whether its likley to be behind closed doors so to speak. Its just that with the proliferation of photos to look at these days its a lot easier to spot juniors after the race rather than just spotting a name in a result list. Photos from this years FTOP and Clay Bank West are fine examples. My sympathy is for the ROs if they have been "had"

[IanDarkpeak]

Where are the committee standing on the issue of runners who are too young talking on races that are too long for them, slightly separate issue but you see it all the time. How do we protect race organisers from juniors putting down the wrong age and taking on races that are too long. What happens if they are injured through doing this. Should the FRA be banning these juniors as well as they are "cheating" the RO?

The FRA Committee treats such breaches, whether it is an underage runner (or the parent) or the RO, seriously and, without being specific on here, "action" has been taken in several cases.

The FRA Committee may take "whatever action is deemed necessary" (subject to appeal to UKA) and the procedure is set out on page 114 of the Calendar.

GB

Interesting this one, I would say that if a junior and parent deliberately hid the facts from the RO then I agree with Graham whole heartedly.

But is there a case for some discretion where a top junior approaches a RO with parental consent and ask's permission laying all the facts and experience before him/her? How else do they gain experience in harder races. I can think of 3 or 4 juniors in the peak who are more than capable of racing 20+ miles, one did a bg Last year and another has run the 50 mile boundary run since he was 14.

yet another was allowed to run round a medium but not enter the race, he would have come in the top 10 had he been allowed to enter.

I certainly see the point of protecting the youth from harm and parental pressure, just wondered what the thoughts are from Graham and the youth coaches out there, Discuss

[Graham Breeze]

Interesting this one, I would say that if a junior and parent deliberately hid the facts from the RO then I agree with Graham whole heartedly.

But is there a case for some discretion where a top junior approaches a RO with parental consent and ask's permission laying all the facts and experience before him/her? How else do they gain experience in harder races. I can think of 3 or 4 juniors in the peak who are more than capable of racing 20+ miles, one did a bg Last year and another has run the 50 mile boundary run since he was 14.

yet another was allowed to run round a medium but not enter the race, he would have come in the top 10 had he been allowed to enter.

I certainly see the point of protecting the youth from harm and parental pressure, just wondered what the thoughts are from Graham and the youth coaches out there, Discuss

Ian,

The Rules are UKA rules. The FRA will not allow discretion because everyone claims to be a "special case". The FRA view is on page 8 of the Summer Fellrunner.

We appreciate the difficulty a RO may have and we know of cases where the junior lied about his age on the entry form, or persuaded the RO to let him run and we have contacted ROs in the past warning them of the need to be vigilant. A sanction against a RO could include the FRA refusing the race insurance and excluding all his/her events from future Calendars.

GB