Development of Young Athletes

[biara]

It is acknowledged that we lose juniors as they go up to seniors but is this at a greater rate than other sports? How many thousand get scouted for football teams but how many make it through to professional ranks or even to serious non-league.

I think that many keep running, but actually consider themselves as a participant in another sport. The 'fun' footballer who goes out for a run a couple of times a week but considers themselves a footballer. As stated on the other thread by i think felljunior, quite a few medals at elite level in mountain running and team medals to, we can't be doing too much wrong. Are we as coaches wanting too much? Not implied as a criticism of anybody at any club, but is this an unconscious thought that we have?

I do feel sorry for little biara though, she seems to have inherited my speed!! Her aim at pendle this year, to actually get over the gate before all the others have come down the other way.

[Stolly]

Sorry just posted this in the elite vs muppets thread but its priobably better here:

Quite honestly I don't think it matters what sports kids take up - its just brilliant if they turn out sporty. And then, should they happen to find out that they are good at a sport or sports, they can take it from there. And if they want to be really, really good they need to be prepared to take a sport they are good at and turn it into an absolute obsession... which is definitely not for everyone.

Obviously if you coach running you want the kids to take it up I'm sure but don't lose sight of the bigger picture.

[Clash City Rocker]

I do feel sorry for little biara though, she seems to have inherited my speed!! Her aim at pendle this year, to actually get over the gate before all the others have come down the other way.[/QUOTE]

Dont feel sorry for her help her achieve her aim. Its a brilliant target to have.

[Clash City Rocker]

Clash City, this is really interesting. I agree there can be danger for talented youngsters for the reasons you suggest. Conversley, those children who enjoy fell running but who struggle to do well in terms of winning (ie. they work really hard but still come near the back in a race), they gain a lot in terms of emotional resiliance, working hard to make small gains, etc, and this is a fantastic benefit for their later life. It takes a special character to be slow or average in races time-and-again, and to keep turning up. I think these youngsters are more likely to stick with the sport because coping with the work and the pain involved will have become second nature - they have lived it already and they will not be fazed by coming up against better runners later - they are used to it! With children this is specially admirable because at this age racing IS about winning (nothing wrong with that) so if we can get these children into our clubs, they have lots to gain and probably lots to contribute to our clubs later.

For me it is similar to the problems of child prodigies in any field - outside sport too. Extra-clever or talented children get used to being admired and being on top, winning or being in sight of trophies, etc. So yes, for many it is such a big fall once the world stops saying how brilliant they are, and once 'being on (or near) the top' needs a work ethic and resiliance to failure, not just the luck of genetics.

And there is a gap between success in childhood and success in adulthood (again, in anything, not just sport). Maturity, late starters, etc. Some kids can run faster when they are young, and others catch up later. Average juniors can be top seniors, also through the luck of genetics.

I think about this a lot (it's interesting!).

Your right it is an interesting area. I have no evidence but I suspect that WP may have that it is the also rans who come through on the whole. I know all about the special type of person who is slow in races time and again. Thats me which is why I very rarely race as I dont enjoy it but I love to run. If we assume progression is so very importnat then we are always looking to measure it and prove it. There has to be a large part of what we do that ignores this impulse and just coaches (works with) juniors to be good at running because its good to be good at running. Is it better to be FRA U12 champion or V40 champion. I dont know but i suspect that there has never been anyone who has been both or ever will be.

[manothemoors]

What are our goals? A good question. I'm pretty much with what CCR has already said.
When I first decided to get involved with coaching it was because I went to the track with my youngster and remembered all the hours that volunteer coaches had given me when I ran competitively (aged 11 to 23). I just wanted to put something back...as much as anything else it was "to be there" for them...a commitment of time and to help them in any way possible.
Now that I'm pretty much immersed in it I can see other agendas at play. It seems to me that EA are interested in delivering podium/medal winning athletes...my role is somewhere in the bottom half of that pyramid that has Fundamentals at the base. The club wants to have good numbers of kids able and willing to compete in team events. Fair enough, that's the "raison d'etre". Personally, my goal is to encourage as many kids as I can to "have a go", to try different things, to enjoy the broadened social contact, to enjoy competition, to want to come back every week. As individuals I want to try to help them improve in any way that I can. That means that I'm interested in the kids who have not found the event that they are particularly good at yet just as much as those who are already at the front of the pack. Their needs are different. The goals with them are probably different too....given that one group tends to be more "driven" than the other.
When the kids are well into their teens and competing at a high level I think things change again...coaching becomes more about performance, though "enjoyment" must still underpin participation.

As has been said already, the kids who excel as juniors don't often figure in the senior ranks. These are the best under 15 boys in the (limited all time) Power of 10 rankings for the 800m. There is only one name (Tom McKean) who you could say went on to become a household name. http://www.thepowerof10.info/ranking...ex=M&alltime=y

Football is similar. Pro clubs are taking kids of 5 and 6 now. Most will be discarded. Oddly enough, there isn't the same pressure to produce "excellence" in Junior Football clubs as there is in athletics. It really is about playing football with your mates. You try to help them improve their skills and encourage them to play their best, but the "fun" is much the biggest part of it. It's the parents who take it too seriously.

I digress...what I'm trying to say is that there aren't any general goals other than to help each individual athlete get as much out of their participation as they want. If that happens to coincide with the agendas of EA, club. parents or whoever, all well and good. At the top of page one of the coaching manual it says "It's all about the athlete". That goes whatever their age.

[biara]

A new teacher has just taken over little biara's class, as a target for the year, she has actually put down, not to finish last in any races (I'm rarely above 3/4 way down the field) and to improve her times.

As Stolly says, I think it is great she is doing sport and wants to improve, I don't care what sport she does as long as she is having fun. She likes cycling at KJRCC, running at KCAC and does any sport they offer to her at Stanbury. For me, her enjoyment and the time spent outside doing stuff is of main importance.

[Witton Park]

As has been said already, the kids who excel as juniors don't often figure in the senior ranks. These are the best under 15 boys in the (limited all time) Power of 10 rankings for the 800m. There is only one name (Tom McKean) who you could say went on to become a household name. http://www.thepowerof10.info/ranking...ex=M&alltime=y

An element of that is because athletes then were more likely to become household names than they are these days. Michael Rimmer is still running now and his PB is 0.01 seconds off that of McKean.
But everyone knows McKean, certainly of the over 40s.

It's also likely that an U15 800m runner will be running 1500 - 10K when they are older.

But I take your point.

[Witton Park]

I think Team is very important. It allows athletes of all abilities to have a taste of and a stake in success. Athletics does involve lots of difficult conflict areas to resolve though.
I'm posting an article I wrote here for our local paper a few years ago that touches on the difficulties encountered and the way Team Spirit can be important to all levels of athlete in the club.
I use this a lot. An athlete who may not feel they can achieve, can in a team. It can give them that buzz, that taste to push for a little more and hopefully create that first spark to push themselves.


Together Each Achieves More – TEAM!

As a coach and team manager, I often have to grapple with the athlete / club conflicts of interest. This is usually an issue that is encountered at a Club fixture such as a League Track and Field match where 30 – 60 athletes can be involved in a variety of disciplines, or a Cross Country League or Championship event where several athletes are required in each age category to complete a team.

It isn’t always easy to reconcile. An athlete may well have a personal, individual goal perhaps to perform well at a particular major championship. The Club’s fixtures may not be at convenient times or be at the appropriate level of competition required for that particular athlete.

I am sure that many of you will be familiar with this situation. I have found myself at times frustrated by coaches and their athletes pulling out of fixtures, for what I as a team manager may feel are spurious reasons, but to them may be totally logical. Or perhaps requesting an event that they would not normally do within that fixture, in order to help them better prepare for their target, but by doing this, inadvertently ensuring that other athletes are inconvenienced to accommodate them.

In discussions on this matter at my own club and with others, I have been told that the individual should be put first, that each athlete must be dealt with in the best way possible for them.

However, I feel that this is too simplistic a stance to take as it can rarely work in practise. My counter argument is that place one athlete first, and you line up several behind them, creating a two tier structure; the athletes that matter and the athletes that don’t. Of course all athletes matter, it is a perception that can be created not a reality.

Athletes are in most instances club members, and therefore part of several groups within what can be a complex social structure.
On the first level they are an individual with their own personal targets. On the next level they are part of a training squad, under their coach, and then they are part of various teams within the club structure.
You can see quite easily how the agenda and actions of one athlete can impact significantly on the whole club.

I feel that athletics is about more than just the physical and technical skills of the athlete. As club members, all athletes benefit from the mutual support within the club environment. All members have an extended responsibility to each other. The individual referred to above would be less competitive without the training squad colleagues that push them week in week out, or without the back up of the club infrastructure that raises funding, provides officials and trains the coaches.
They learn teamwork, respect for their club mates and fellow competitors from other clubs. Athletics helps young athletes develop their personality and social skills to enable them to deal better with life as they move from education in to employment. The sport assists in creating good human beings and roll models for others.

I feel that Team events are extremely important. If you have a vibrant club, with a good team spirit, then the talented individuals will thrive within that environment. Most athletes do not have the ability to achieve individually at a high level, but often as part of a team pulling together the results attained can exceed the sum of the parts.

Individual club athletes should try to tailor their programme to meet the demands of the club as well as their own individual targets, because without the club behind them, they would not be the athlete that they are.

Clubs have to try and tailor their fixture demands to enable their athletes to get the right balance and quality of competition, whilst trying to build a base of members that can manage the demands of team competition without relying on everybody being available.

Team competition has to be given a high priority by all at the club as it is the foundation of the club. All the members have a stake in the success or failure. Team competition is the creator of the excitement and momentum that can move the whole club forward.

[Dynamo Dan]

Do none of the big club have links with local football teams? I bet there are lads, who won't make the grade at football, but would make great distance runners.

Don't schools send their talented kids to clubs any more? I was sent to a local athletics club as a kid, but the track was within a velodrome and I ended up getting poached by the cycling club instead!!

[manothemoors]

Do none of the big club have links with local football teams? I bet there are lads, who won't make the grade at football, but would make great distance runners.

Don't schools send their talented kids to clubs any more? I was sent to a local athletics club as a kid, but the track was within a velodrome and I ended up getting poached by the cycling club instead!!

You're right. At our local inter-schools cross country, three of the first four home in the year 4 race were members of the junior footie team that I coach....the Keeper won it. :thumbup: