The lost art of navigation?

[OnTor]

Also happened on that nav course I was on with you? Brand new compass with north and south reversed.

Give me a GPS any day :sneaky:

Navigation is much more than map & compass...

[cyclops]

You certainly can, any strong magnetic force can do such a thing

and if you use an Osprey water bladder that has a magnet to attach the drinking end of the tube to your rucksack don't put yr compass anywhere near the magnet.
nor should you have a metal maglite torch near a compass.
I speak from experience!

[DrPatrickBarry]

carn mor dearg in the clag

That is a big area to get lost in. I had to do some brute force naviagation many years ago to find our way back to the tent that we had pitched by the lake at the base of that hill. Interesting evening!

[IanDarkpeak]

My next navigation courses will be on 20 & 21st October if you are interested You can bring a gps as long as it stays in your rucsac....

[AndyA]

Thats rubbish I'd say - okay a gps can help pin point a summit invisible in the clag but it sure can't help you cover the ground or select the best line/trod/path or quite simply 'know' the ground. Out of the 42 summits I'd say that a gps could be useful in bad weather pin pointing no more than half a dozen of them but that the rest is all down to knowing the ground

Not done the BG but from reading forums I gather that most of the good lines have nice elephant tracks on them nowadays! These lines show up beautifully on Google Earth and are very useful for plotting a race route. It's worth picking your favourite race and having a quick look at it on Earth; you'll be surprised how obvious the 'race route' is even if it doesn't follow an official footpath. A gps trace will get you to any summit you want, pretty exactly. I've never had a gps affected by the weather conditions although I accept that it's possible.

I'll freely admit to using a gps trace in a race. The first year I did the Wadsworth Trog I got badly lost between High Brown Knoll and Sheepstones; ended up cutting down to the road and abandoning the race. I was furious with myself as I was doing pretty well up to that point. In the second year I used a gps trace I'd plotted off Google Earth as a backup. Visibility was better that year and I didn't really need it but it was very reassuring to have the 'breadcrumb trail' on the watch.

I don't think GPS watches will encourage runners not to bother learning nav skills; most fellrunners don't seem to be able to navigate that well and I suspect they never have been able to, even before GPS came along. It's simply not what they run for; they run the fells because they enjoy the freedom and the space.

It might be different for walkers; gps might encourage them to go further than they really should but again we're just speculating.

[AndyA]

My next navigation courses will be on 20 & 21st October if you are interested You can bring a gps as long as it stays in your rucsac....

No plans to incorporate GPS at all?

It's your course Ian and it's up to you what you teach but GPS is here whether we like it or not.

Better that they know how to use it and appreciate its limitations than just pretend it doesn't exist, surely?

[Multiterrainer]

most fellrunners don't seem to be able to navigate that well .

As a bit of an aside but interesting nonetheless, the only time I've seen a picture of a race leader with a map in hand was Langdale Horseshoe in 2010....that being Oli Johnson who is first and foremost an international orienteer.

http://team.inov-8.eu/2010/10/langdale-horseshoe.html

[shaunaneto]

No plans to incorporate GPS at all?

It's your course Ian and it's up to you what you teach but GPS is here whether we like it or not.

Better that they know how to use it and appreciate its limitations than just pretend it doesn't exist, surely?

Didn't go near a GPS on my Mountain Leader training, and from the way the instructors where talking it's not likely to be featuring much any time soon. Very much a case of "they can be a useful aid, but you'll learn map and compass first and foremost"

[Stolly]

I don't know exactly how accurate gps devices are, or whether some are better than others, but in my first (failed) Bob Graham attempt (going anticlockwise) we were on top of Fairfield for a good 15 minutes trying to find the summit windshelter in an extremely cold full on wind and 10 metre visibilty (for good measure it was midnight, pitch black with thick clag and driving rain ). One of our support runners had a gps and confirmed we were at the top but we still couldn't find the flipping summit until we'd all wandered round in a search line for some time. Then soon after that we had exactly the same problem finding the right descent line to the tarn and then again finding the top of Dollywaggon Pike.... and not long after that our attempt was called to a halt, largely because we were fast losing time and were getting increasingly frozen having to keep looking at maps/gps's. Would a better gps have helped? Or could it have been programmed more accurately?

Incidentally I now know that bit of the route really well having been over it a few times and wouldn't envisage having the problem again with or without a gps or a map

[DrPatrickBarry]

Not done the BG but from reading forums I gather that most of the good lines have nice elephant tracks on them nowadays! These lines show up beautifully on Google Earth and are very useful for plotting a race route.

Not so sure about that. There is a trod the whole way from Skiddaw to Great Calva, I have just had a look for it on Google Earth and no joy. I could see the fence that u need to climb over just after the summit of Skiddaw.