Thats interesting Splatcher as I too had umed and ahed about whether to go for a sub 12 JNC and decided not to almost on the basis of what you say above. My BG was faster but not an astonishing time so I hesitated. Since then though I have met several people who have acheived sub 12 JNC's and done 23 hr ish BG's. One is a regular forumite not far from you in Staffs and another is someone who did both last Summer at the tender age of 57! Perhaps its about the type of terrain that suits different styles. For instance I know a Scottish chap who upon completeing the Ramsay quite easlily complained about the amount of fastish running required on a BG rather than the tough climbs or the picking a line through rough ground. he gave up on the BG?! I know from supporting JNC's that it alls feels very full on from the start to Dunmail and its generally very kind terrain compared with the rougher slower stuff elsewhere. having wandered off subject though in this thread I really would like to do a Cumbria Traverse its the transport logistics that are my obstacle.