Giro

[Graham Breeze]

There's some rubbish put on here sometimes (and before you say it yes perhaps I've contributed) but this is a bit like my Dad's harder than your Dad sort of stuff. They are all great cyclists that will be revered by cycling fans world wide in a generations time.

I do think when someone resorts to the Daily Mail reader jibe they show themselves up for their own bigoted and narrow minded views

Well WP if Wiggins is great then so are Oscar Pereiro and Carlos Sastre, both of whom are recent winners of the Tour but names you rarely find on the pages of the Daily Mail because they were born in the wrong country.

And OK if Wiggins is great (and British) where does that leave Anquetil, LeMond, Merckx, Coppi, Kelly? "very great", "super great"; or just foreigners?

[Witton Park]

Well WP if Wiggins is great then so are Oscar Pereiro and Carlos Sastre, both of whom are recent winners of the Tour but names you rarely find on the pages of the Daily Mail because they were born in the wrong country.

And OK if Wiggins is great (and British) where does that leave Anquetil, LeMond, Merckx, Coppi, Kelly? "very great", "super great"; or just foreigners?

I'm not a historian of cycling like you and many others Graham, but great to me is more than just the measurable achievements. You use the term Elan. I like to look at sportsmanship, character, and a degree of humour helps as well all wrapped up in a high level of achievement.#

One of my favourite sportsmen ever has been Steve Davis and overseas all-time favourite a toss up between Valeriy Borzov and Alberto Juantorena.
In cycling terms since I started following it Motte, Jalabert, Indurain, Boardman have been inspiring and entertaining. Jalabert in particular was a favourite.

But in what you would probably find a random list of greats, in my mind probably Thomas Voeckler stands out. I think some of his performances in the Tour have been so courageous. Truly inspiring and in my mind a great cyclist.

I am British, so I do have a soft spot for our own, but I also appreciate overseas sportsmen and women and I think most are of a similar mind.

[Deadlegs]

I think 'great' should also be a rarely used accolade. Voeckler is courageous but not great. Wiggins might get there especially if he wins the Giro and then Paris Roubaix as he says he would like . Of the current generation Boonen and Cancellara are great Classics riders. Maybe. It's all a matter of opinion.

[nikalas]

Ah! The Olympic Gold Medal argument that makes Wiggo so special.

So, do you recall who won the Olympic Road Gold Medal? In case you cannot it was:
Алексaндр Винокуров (Alexander Vinokourov).

And he has won the Vuelta; so another "great" rider?

It wasn't just one gold medal though was it and, as Richard Head points out, IP, through TT and the Tour, incredible range. Lets not forget all the World Championships on the track either and the pull he put in for Cav for his rainbow jersey. As I said earlier, not a "great" yet but not deserving a your glib dismissal either.

[Graham Breeze]

I'm not a historian of cycling like you and many others Graham....

Thinking about Froome and Wiggins and which team they will be riding for next year I was reminded of the words of Gino Bartali quoted in Maglia Rosa (Herbie Sykes):

Pretendere che due rivali convivano è sempre stato difficile.

(The notion that two rivals can coexist has always been difficult).

Before WWII Bartali and Coppi both rode for Legnano and Bartali had won multiple Giri but in 1946 Coppi, the up and coming rider (who, aged just 20, had won the last Giro before WWII), realised that Bartali would not accept competition from within his own team and so moved to Bianchi. Bartali won the 1946 Giro but Coppi then won in 47,49,52 and 53. Of course in 49 and 52 Coppi also won the Tour.

[Witton Park]

I just wonder is the Brailsford announcement is partly to keep the peace. It would be difficult to back Frome as the Team leader if Wiggins is a minute or more up after the first time trial, which is quite possible.
It will certainly be a test of Wiggins if he works the climbs for Frome, returning last years support and yet can remain competitive.

[Alf]

I just wonder is the Brailsford announcement is partly to keep the peace. It would be difficult to back Frome as the Team leader if Wiggins is a minute or more up after the first time trial, which is quite possible.
It will certainly be a test of Wiggins if he works the climbs for Frome, returning last years support and yet can remain competitive.

Brailsford is trying to sell it on the lines of more climb and less time trials so Frome is better suited than Wiggins. Trouble is Wiggins will still be faster in the time trials and Frome's climbing abilities are still better employed assisting Wiggins ?

[shaunaneto]

This year does look much better suited to Froome, last years course looked almost designed for Wiggo.......

[Will.Race]

My moneys on Quintana for the Tour. Was 100 / 1 before his Tour of the Basque Country win. Has the climbing ability to trouble Sky and he can time trial. Unproven over 3 weeks but in with a top3 chance I think.

and in the Giro I'm on Mauro Santabrogio. Superb form this season and ran Nibali close in the final Italian warm up race

[The devil's own]

You really do come across as a smug, backwards looking and condescending so and so

Agreed. Whenever I see one of his posts I always think of this fella..........