best fell runner ever ?

[noel]

I wasn't in to fell running when Billy Bland was racing. The records suggest that if Billy were still racing at his pomp and entered a lakes classic race that was also a champs race now, he would win it by 10-15 minutes from the current 'winner'. Is this realistic, or were these records set in very good conditions. I know he was good, but was he really that much better than eg, Rob Jebb?

When he set these records, was he winning these races by 15 minutes?

I also think local knowledge helps a lot in Lakes races. So this analysis probably places Colin Donnelly and the other non-Lakes runners lower than they should be if it were a pure indication of ability.

[L.F.F.]

I wasn't in to fell running when Billy Bland was racing. The records suggest that if Billy were still racing at his pomp and entered a lakes classic race that was also a champs race now, he would win it by 10-15 minutes from the current 'winner'. Is this realistic, or were these records set in very good conditions. I know he was good, but was he really that much better than eg, Rob Jebb?

When he set these records, was he winning these races by 15 minutes?

I also think local knowledge helps a lot in Lakes races. So this analysis probably places Colin Donnelly and the other non-Lakes runners lower than they should be if it were a pure indication of ability.

I'm not sure what a big advantage local knowledge really is. There's been a couple of examples recently of people winning classics at what was I'm sure their first attempt (Carl Bell has done that a couple of times, unless I've got that wrong, and Oli Johnson won Langdale with a map in his hand). I read an old interview with Gavin Bland where he said he didn't train on the routes particularly, but had a look round them before races with his uncle (it was in the FRA mag supplement of articles all done by the chap who passed away recently). Anyone can recce like that, or recce a lot more. And if these times were set in good conditions then it reduces the local knowledge element anyway.

Regarding Billy Bland, suppose it's hard to say, but it doesn't strike me as being unrealistic based on his achievements in the BGR, running and walking. Also, looking at his PBs in that article, they weren't in a different league to those around him.

[Hank]

That article is really interesting. Obviously it's impossible to definitively say who's the best ever and we'd all have our preferences for criteria, but given the relative lack of recently set records in these classic races it seems reasonable to suggest that the quality of fields in say the last 20 years is not quite what it was prior to that. As the article says, not very far off at all, but still not quite there.

No doubt Ian Holmes is an absolutely fantastic runner (with unmatched longevity), but would he have taken the Champs in the years when the likes of Billy and Kenny were in their pomp? I doubt it. Kenny Stuart still holds the records for Ennerdale (about as long as it gets) and Wansfell (a pure up down sub 20min lung-buster). Totally amazing.

Joss is my 'best'. I most admire his running philosophy (and his predilection for rock buns and stout).

[wheezing donkey]

Joss is still great. I've spent some excellent times with him when aiding & abetting JNC contenders. But even at his prime he was a pure (ultra) distance runner. I can't remember him figuring prominently in short races. Whereas Billy could win the long classics, short "up & downers" and that BG record has stood for 30 years without anyone getting within a hour - not to mention his & Gavin's BG walk.

[Lefty]

image.jpg
Best fellrunner ever, but which one ?

[L.F.F.]

even at his prime he was a pure (ultra) distance runner.

Is that right? Nine consecutive Ennerdale wins wasn't it, and that's not an ultra. Just a long Lakeland classic. Not saying it's anything like a short blast by any means, but some people talk as though he did nothing but 7 day jaunts and 24 hour challenges.

[superflyguy]

Is that right? Nine consecutive Ennerdale wins wasn't it, and that's not an ultra. Just a long Lakeland classic. Not saying it's anything like a short blast by any means, but some people talk as though he did nothing but 7 day jaunts and 24 hour challenges.

I think you have misunderstood the (grammatical) point of brackets.

[L.F.F.]

I think you have misunderstood the (grammatical) point of brackets.

How do you mean? Always happy to learn.

[wheezing donkey]

How do you mean? Always happy to learn.

Josh, the grammatical point of the brackets is that you could ignore the word contained therein - "ultra" - and my observation would still be relevant; as indeed your following post conceded!

Ian Roberts, Bowland FR.

[L.F.F.]

Josh, the grammatical point of the brackets is that you could ignore the word "ultra" and my observation would still be relevant - as indeed your following post conceded!

Ian Roberts, Bowland FR.

Conceded he might've been primarily a distance runner.

What was your point then? I can see your point might have been relevant without the word 'ultra'. Just trying to understand what your point was with that word included.