Oh no it hasn't.Originally Posted by Henry Porter
Oh no it hasn't.
Have I Trev? didn't realise my opinion is so well documented. TBH I don't mind Constructive comments at all it's all the destructive ones and the generalisations being thrown around.
I think you will find my comment was more about what people are saying about other people.
Both groups have concerned views and I believe both groups want the best for the sport I love. but some of the comments fill me with despair. what ever your View and note I don't say Side because I really believe we all ultimately want the same thing. we all hold genuine beliefs that we want the best for our sport.
I will attending my first committee meeting soon, For those who have asked via email or PM If I've been coerced into supporting one view or the other, I've not even been asked or told to hold an opinion or view.
I'm out of this thread now because it's no longer a discussion and it truly saddens me.
Right boot.
Wrong foot.
Those involved rubbished themselves making serious mistakes doing jobs they were not qualified to do. If there were any integrity they would have long ago resigned. If they were in any corporate role they would have been sacked or sanctioned because no responsible organization can afford such a liability in compliance roles.
Just because I choose to campaign against a british government or a policy of the day does not mean I wish to cease to be british. It means I want responsible behaviour by officials.. Governments come and go and are pushed. The state and institutions and my nationality , and wish to retain it remain.
The functioning of democracy demands free press, and dissemination of all that is done in the name of the electorate. Indeed the knee jerk reaction of every weak government and every totalitarian state is to try to hide what is done and to censor media. like making agendas , minutes and other papers confidential. like FRA has now decided in erosion of proper democracy.
That has serious consequences. It was only dissemination of documents that allowed those outside the process ( us) to identify the serious flaws that those who were in the process and those charged with approving such documents had failed to find. Now dissemination no longer takes place the resulting output will inevitably be poorer because of the lack of scrutiny and accountability.
It is true that graham seems to think that he is indispensible, so your comment on that at least is apt.
You know henry - I find all this seriously dispiriting too.
That the key people have done all they can to resist input from help freely offered by people clearly well qualified to do that , and knowing they have made bad mistakes themselves, is way beyond me, or that graham can now blithely express disdain at those concerned about insurance when it was him who stated there was reason to worry - so much so he put it in rules. All The criticism he brought on himself.
If help had been accepted when first offered long before bad blood we would never have got here. But you will have to ask them why they did not aacept. It is still a mystery to me - other than " not invented here" is a Well known problem and syndrome in corporate dynamics.
Last edited by alwaysinjured; 03-04-2014 at 12:02 AM.
Like all committee you have a choice , to speak up for what you believe, or stay silent in the interests of illusory harmony.
If you think For example it is patently ridiculous that fellrunner editor refuses to take articles on safety from those clearly competent to write them, to avoid " being seen to take sides" , then say so pesistently until the wrong is righted. If you believe it is wrong and say nothing or little you become part of the problem, not part of the solution.
If you think it is patently ridiculous that Andy W was refused a placeon the safety committee as the only safety qualified person, or that his motion on such issues should have been heard and voted, you have to say so as many times as it takes to change it. Or again you are part of the problem not part of the solution.
If you think it is wrong in any democracy for agendas and minutes to be secreted away, so that members can decide whether issues merit attention, say so and do not let go until sense prevails. If you disagree with how it is done and say nothing, again you are part of the problem.
If you think it is wrong that a presentation is refused on how safety should be managed, by people clearly competent To present it. Then say so, whatever the chair or others may think - find support for the view and outvote them, making sure you are not refused a vote.
Even if you are not on the safety committee it is your job to challenge anything you see that they do that you think has problems , or documents you do not think are right. Do not pass anything without proper scrutiny, and vote against unless you actually agree. You are the backstop in a properly functioning committee that stops wrong things getting out of the door. That has clearly failed in the past.
Destiny is in your own hands and we outside the committee are reliant on you to stand up forcibly for what you think is right, not what is expedient, or what is demanded by the chair.
And lastly, when it comes to compliance there are right and wrong ways, not just matters of opinion, Do not get bullied into collegiate responsibility for decisions that are not right.
Like the rest of committee you have a choice.
Are you part of the solution or part of the problem by staying silent?
Stand up forwhat you believe. That is all we ask.
Last edited by alwaysinjured; 03-04-2014 at 12:37 AM.
BBB FFS
It's like Stepford wives. The real IDP is no more. He now only follows the committee's decisions. The few who left the committee did so before they were replaced.
But seriously, people actually asked you if you have been coerced??!! I quite like a conspiracy theory but that is just silly.
[Edit]; having just skimmed AI's post, I think that might count as coercion!!
Last edited by noel; 03-04-2014 at 08:23 AM.
Hahaha.
(Jesus effing wept!)
Good luck Ian and when you've sorted out the Fell Runners Association commitee's safety policy, moving on to easier things like sorting out peace in the Middle East, the Syrian civil war, the annexation of Crimea by Russia, the hand gun ownership problem in the USA, the South American drug cartels, finding that missing Malaysian plane, bringing true democracy to China, quashing Scottish independence and making sure everybody in the UK eats 7 portions of fruit and veg a day will all seem a complete doddle
This thread is so annoying because you just want to ignore it, on the basis that it long ago failed to serve any truly useful purpose, but then someone makes a comment that you just cannot let pass without comment, and you're drawn in all over again!
Now I confess that I have spent a day out on the hill with IDP and, maybe, I am therefore biased, but I find him to be extremely knowledgeable and competent on the fells and, if I'm not mistaken, one of the really good things I think the FRA has done over recent times, is to include some articles and literature written by IDP which will do more to help safety in fellrunning than all of the talk in the world.
As for his integrity, what a ridiculous suggestion to call it into question at this stage and say that because he has joined the committee, he now, obviously, sides with them 100%. I can only think that that sort of suggestion says more about the nature of the person making it than the one it's directed at,
I don't know the circumstances of IDP's appointment to the committee but, yet again, I'd like to see the positive in it by thinking that the rest of the committee realised that, as an experienced runner and experienced outdoor professional (who will be concerned with health & safety on every course he works), IDP would have a lot to add in terms of knowledge and opinion. A cracking appointment, someone with integrity and, if the processes are as flawed and undemocratic as some on here would have us believe, someone who I feel sure would stand up and be counted, if necessary (no pressure Ian!).
As for the rest of it, completely pointless now. Two entrenched positions, mudslinging, name-calling, it gets us nowhere. Until I see some evidence of mass dissent from within the committee, then I trust our unpaid, hard-working volunteer committee to move the process forward, albeit with a few hiccups along the way, and I thank them for their considerable efforts, in their "spare" time, on our behalf.
I don't know Mike (Always Injured) but I do know Ian and I've run with him. I cannot think of anyone I know (except maybe likes of Bob and Yiannis) that I'd rather be out with. Ian's forgot more about hill-craft than most people on here (me included) have ever known. He's also just the right kind of lively, youthful guy to liven up the commitee. He takes safety very seriously; safety in the outdoors, on mountains, wild places
Last edited by Derby Tup; 03-04-2014 at 10:18 AM.
Poacher turned game-keeper
It agree with every word of that..... apart from "youthful"!!!
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