Sub 3 hour Marathon.

[TheHeathens]

I think if you're going for times rather than just getting round, you've got to do at least one - if not more long run over 20-22. At 18 miles, you've only covered 2/3rds race distance, and it's from that point where the wheels are going to fall off / hit the wall etc... I think it would be relatively easy to kid yourself that you're ready for a marathon on training runs up to 18 miles. 8 miles is long way when you're in unknown territory.

I would argue that you should even be doing a marathon in training. I remember seeing on Andi Jones's facebook that he did a 2:32 marathon in training six weeks before his back to back runs in London (2:18) and Manchester (2:26 in horrendous weather) back in 2012.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/152673384

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/154949662

Pretty impressive stuff!

[djglover]

well done, but I think you can go quicker... if thats your training pace?

A marathon paced run should be hard work.. X in Y runs, say 2 miles easy 4-6 miles at MP then 2-3 miles easier should be a hard session.. what was the pace of your long runs?

I probably average 7:30 for 90+ mile weeks.. my marathon pace is probably around 6:00.. currently my pb is 2:39, but my half is 73:30 and my 10 mile 55:57 so 2:35 ish is probably a more realistic time for me to go for.

Technically yes, I should be quicker over the distance. My times at other distances on the road suggest sub 2:50 would be achievable (sub 36 10k, sub 1hr 10 miles) however I had nothing left to give over that distance at the weekend, I don't think it would have gone as well had I set off at sub 6:30 min miles instead of 6:48!

Long run pace was 7:45' and the progression one was 7:35 then marathon pace.

[Stolly]

I think if you're going for times rather than just getting round, you've got to do at least one - if not more long run over 20-22. At 18 miles, you've only covered 2/3rds race distance, and it's from that point where the wheels are going to fall off / hit the wall etc... I think it would be relatively easy to kid yourself that you're ready for a marathon on training runs up to 18 miles. 8 miles is long way when you're in unknown territory.

Now you tell me!

Distance though hasn't been my problem: from Strava, and ignoring my 'normal' runs, in the last 9 weeks I've run a 20 miler around Sutton Bank, 21.8 miles around the 3 Peaks, another 21 mile triangle of the Dales, 27.6 miles over legs 1 and 2 of the BG (2 days after my first canal half marathon run), 16 odd miles around upper Wharfedale (2 days after my second canal half mara), 10 miles around the Fairfield Horseshoe, 21 miles around the Edale Skyline (3 days after my third canal half mara), 20 miles up and around Ingleborough with just last weekends long 'un (a recce of the TWA) cut short by bad weather leaving my longest run at 8 miles.

They were all in the hills though. I think I needed a 20 plus mile flat run at a half decent pace, goddamit!

[IainR]

I would argue that you should even be doing a marathon in training. I remember seeing on Andi Jones's facebook that he did a 2:32 marathon in training six weeks before his back to back runs in London (2:18) and Manchester (2:26 in horrendous weather) back in 2012.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/152673384

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/154949662

Pretty impressive stuff!

Aye, I just find longer runs so boring.. 20-21 is about as much as I can take, but then I'll race trail marathons and 50k's as training runs.. as long as they are fast running I think you get your long run benefit.. not say doing a 25 mile fell race. Last year I did rennsteiglauf 43k in 2:50, beautiful runnable trail race in central germany. With doing a race you get food and water support.

here the problem is they wont turn the water on in the water fountains until its guaranteed not to freeze, but this weekend we'll be 70F+ and by the time they turn it on it'll be 80F+ on the long runs.. so other races give you that support.

[IainR]

Now you tell me!

Distance though hasn't been my problem: from Strava, and ignoring my 'normal' runs, in the last 9 weeks I've run a 20 miler around Sutton Bank, 21.8 miles around the 3 Peaks, another 21 mile triangle of the Dales, 27.6 miles over legs 1 and 2 of the BG (2 days after my first canal half marathon run), 16 odd miles around upper Wharfedale (2 days after my second canal half mara), 10 miles around the Fairfield Horseshoe, 21 miles around the Edale Skyline (3 days after my third canal half mara), 20 miles up and around Ingleborough with just last weekends long 'un (a recce of the TWA) cut short by bad weather leaving my longest run at 8 miles.

They were all in the hills though. I think I needed a 20 plus mile flat run at a half decent pace, goddamit!

yeah BGR stuff is basically like pissing in the wind.. :-)

It'll provide a decent aerobic base but even forest trails are much better for you training wise. Edales not too bad, at least it's 90% running. On a BGR lets face it you walk for 50-60% of the time.

[dominion]

I would argue that you should even be doing a marathon in training. I remember seeing on Andi Jones's facebook that he did a 2:32 marathon in training six weeks before his back to back runs in London (2:18) and Manchester (2:26 in horrendous weather) back in 2012.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/152673384

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/154949662

Pretty impressive stuff!

I think in Andi's case his mileage is high all year round, so 26 miles is fairly 'normal'. For a lot of people their weekly mileage isn't as high, so you risk race distance training runs having a negative impact. It's a fine line though.

[Tahr]

10 miles is too much a week before? damm that is a cut back from my other marathon in which I did a 1/2 a week before.

OK 1/3 distance a week before the next one? I did six miles on the Tuesday before the race 3 easy then 3 almost flat out, is that too much?

I am pleased with my recovery I did a active recovery by cycling on Tuesday and Wednesday, on the Tuesday I could not run but yesterday I did a sub 40 10K, although my hamsting went again at half way so I had to slow down a bit in the second half of the race, I finished walking the last 100 yards.

I am thinking Chester Marathon at the end of the year to have another crack at sub 3, any thoughts?

Well done everybody else who ran the Manchester.

ATB

Tahr

[IainR]

10 miles is too much a week before? damm that is a cut back from my other marathon in which I did a 1/2 a week before.

OK 1/3 distance a week before the next one? I did six miles on the Tuesday before the race 3 easy then 3 almost flat out, is that too much?

I am pleased with my recovery I did a active recovery by cycling on Tuesday and Wednesday, on the Tuesday I could not run but yesterday I did a sub 40 10K, although my hamsting went again at half way so I had to slow down a bit in the second half of the race, I finished walking the last 100 yards.

I am thinking Chester Marathon at the end of the year to have another crack at sub 3, any thoughts?

Well done everybody else who ran the Manchester.

ATB

Tahr

10 miles is fine.. I raced a half, ran 73:30 a pb, the week before JFK50 and ran one of the top 20 times in the history of the race there.

Just make it an easy week after.. just keep the pace up.

I do 70% 40% taper in the final 2 weeks.. not including the race, so around 30-40 miles the week before a race. Maybe midweek 3-4 x 1 mile reps at marathon pace.. but with a decent rest.. maybe even matched rest. I dont take a day off but the last day is always just very slow 3 miler.. just because I dont like not running..

Chesters quick, I think its narrow but not a great field so shouldnt be too held up. I'd go for it.

[Tahr]

Thanks for all the advice Ian.

[Yaks]

Abingdon is supposed to be the fastest UK one in the 2nd half of the year, but already sold out. There's a waiting list, but no idea how big it is. They do allow swaps, so if you know anyone who's entered and thinking of withdrawing you can get their place.

Alternatively, hop over to Amsterdam or Munich, both very fast courses, and both still open for entries.